Jump to content


Photo

16mm >>> Digital: Questions???


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Michael Palm

Michael Palm
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Student
  • Kansas City, MO USA

Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:26 PM

Hello,
If I convert 16mm to digital, what quality is better? Mini DV or DVC PRO?

And when I import to Final Cut Pro, what should my import settings be (for best quality)?

My goal is to not "dumb down" the beauty of film with digital editing.

Thanks!
Michael Palm
  • 0

#2 Dennis Kisilyov

Dennis Kisilyov
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Other

Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:39 PM

Hello,
If I convert 16mm to digital, what quality is better? Mini DV or DVC PRO?

And when I import to Final Cut Pro, what should my import settings be (for best quality)?

My goal is to not "dumb down" the beauty of film with digital editing.

Thanks!
Michael Palm



DVC PRO HD.
DVC PRO 50

Best would be Uncompressed HD 4:4:4 1080p.

MiniDV = evil.
  • 0

#3 Michael Palm

Michael Palm
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Student
  • Kansas City, MO USA

Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:55 PM

MiniDV = evil.



Amen.

Thank you.

Edited by Michael Palm, 01 March 2007 - 05:56 PM.

  • 0

#4 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1582 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 01 March 2007 - 08:24 PM

MiniDV = evil.



Just to clarify though, MiniDV. DvcPro, and DvCam all have exactly the same picture quality, i..e. 411 5;1 compressed. The "pro" formats DvcPro and Dvcam are just more robust versions of the MiniDv format, i.e. the tape runs faster to minimize dropout, they handle timecode better, etc.

DvcPro50, etc are different formats and are less common and more expensive.


And yes MiniDv does suck in many ways.

-Rob-
  • 0

#5 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 01 March 2007 - 08:30 PM

Buy an external hard-drive and have it telecine'd at 4:4:4 1080i HD.

Then, for archival purposes, you can back up those files on DVD's afterwards.
  • 0

#6 chris kempinski

chris kempinski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 02 March 2007 - 12:21 AM

what is the compression rate of uncompressed DVDs
and much can you put on a 4G DVD? and what kind of
running time do you get from that?
  • 0

#7 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 02 March 2007 - 12:48 AM

what is the compression rate of uncompressed DVDs
and much can you put on a 4G DVD? and what kind of
running time do you get from that?


You don't compress the files for storing onto DVD's, you just transfer/burn the QT files themselves to the DVD's as a data disc.

I don't know what compression your footage will be upon transfer, so I can't say how much will fit on a 4gig DVD, you can easily do the math though depending on your file sizes. And DVD-R's are pretty cheap nowadays.
  • 0

#8 Dennis Kisilyov

Dennis Kisilyov
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Other

Posted 02 March 2007 - 02:02 PM

Uncompressed QT transfer takes about 3.5GB for 2:30mins of a 100ft 16mm roll.

1080 4:4:4 zipped will fit about 1 min onto a 4GB dvd disk.

I highly advise to go with BlueRay or HD-DVD burners for optical disk archiving.


.... There are magnetic data tapes ....

DLT drives hold way more, and magnetic seems to last longer than optical for off-site data backups.
  • 0

#9 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1582 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 02 March 2007 - 02:44 PM

Buy an external hard-drive and have it telecine'd at 4:4:4 1080i HD.

Then, for archival purposes, you can back up those files on DVD's afterwards.



Recordable DVD's are really only reliable for a short period of time, 5-10 years or so. I have a pdf of an article from "restaurator" an archivist's publication in which a very methodical test of a wide range of optical media was tested and how well the media survived under different conditions. Unfortunately about the best result was 10 years without loss of data and the worst result was only a few months. The test was made with a wide range of conditions from ideal to worst.


We are currently in the middle of an archival project for a library which entails backing up or duplication all of the media assets of a US senator. Everything from 16 & 35 to Beta 3/4" Quad, vhs 1" etc. Much of the magnetic tape has had issues with mold and although the base is polyester and the material is ferrous the mold finds the organic binder (glue) to be tasty and when the mold has eaten through far enough the control tracks are lost or the entire helical scan is lost and there is no recovery of the material. That said tape does last significantly longer and better than optical.

Your original negatives will outlast all of the digital formats available today by a very wide margin and if they are B+W an order of magntude or 3.

-Rob-
  • 0

#10 chris kempinski

chris kempinski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 02 March 2007 - 04:44 PM

Uncompressed QT transfer takes about 3.5GB for 2:30mins of a 100ft 16mm roll.

1080 4:4:4 zipped will fit about 1 min onto a 4GB dvd disk.

I highly advise to go with BlueRay or HD-DVD burners for optical disk archiving.
.... There are magnetic data tapes ....

DLT drives hold way more, and magnetic seems to last longer than optical for off-site data backups.





Thanks Dennis

That is exactly the answer I was looking for.

Cheers
  • 0

#11 Michael Palm

Michael Palm
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Student
  • Kansas City, MO USA

Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:49 PM

Uncompressed QT transfer takes about 3.5GB for 2:30mins of a 100ft 16mm roll.

1080 4:4:4 zipped will fit about 1 min onto a 4GB dvd disk.

I highly advise to go with BlueRay or HD-DVD burners for optical disk archiving.
.... There are magnetic data tapes ....

DLT drives hold way more, and magnetic seems to last longer than optical for off-site data backups.


Thats some good info I need for this project. Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.
  • 0


Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Abel Cine

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

The Slider

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

The Slider

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery