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Seeking information on Keystone cameras


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#1 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 01:55 AM

I guess this is similar to the other thread but I wanted to post several questions which were specifically about the Keystone cameras. I have tried searching Google and oddly, there is very little information regarding Keystone 16mm cameras and the various models that were produced. So I hope that some of the Keystone users can answer my questions.

I am assuming that all or most models run at 24fps? I though i recall reading about a Keystone model that ran at some really odd speed - possibly a high frame rate.

Which models take single perf film? And do these same models have single frame capability? I assume there is a cable release socket for single frame exposures? And if so, would any standard cable release fit?

Additionally, when doing single frame shooting with a Keystone camera, is there any chance of fogging as with a K3 in single frame mode? I have heard that with a K3, it's necessary to cover the lens between exposures to reduce the chance of light leaks. Can you avoid this altogether with a Keystone with regards to singe frame shooting?

Which models have interchangeable lenses? I know the ones that do use C mount.

I am assuming that there is some sort of parallax compensator for the lenses that came supplied with the camera? However, what if you were to buy additional C mount primes for the camera (which were not usually supplied with the camera) such as a 10mm or 12mm wide angle - would there be any parallax correction for these lenses or would I have to make my own framing device for composing?

I have heard from some people that these cameras give very steady footage and at least one person that the footage he saw with his own Keystone was comparable to a Bolex. On the other hand, i have heard of a number of Keystone cameras in poor shape that do not produce very steady footage. Would there be many people around today that service these cameras? Additionally, is it possible to service them yourself?
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#2 Michael Carter

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 11:00 AM

My former posts, threads that I've started, often covered Keystone cameras. Click on my name. Then on "Profile Options" on the line with my name; open that thing on the right to list threads.

Michael Carter

Edited by Michael Carter, 06 March 2007 - 11:03 AM.

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#3 Michael Carter

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 11:19 AM

focusfinder.jpg
Magazine cameras have reflex viewing finders, it is the black Kodak one on the right; the reflex view finder attachment is installed in place inside the magazine compartment. 16mm cameras and 8mm cameras had this device. I have both.

Edited by Michael Carter, 06 March 2007 - 11:21 AM.

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#4 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 04:16 PM

I've frequently found Google and yahoo to be pretty much classified ads. You can find anything you want on the internet as long as it's for sale.

I have some info on Keystones at home taken from ASC Handbook and Reference Guide. & maybe one buried away.

Off hand 16 fps is probably standard speed for them, some have 24 and some go up to 48 or 64.

I doubt that they have single frame and am not sure if they take cable release.

The viewfinder is a window. Parallax compensation would be a mark on the edge of the frame to show where the top of the close up frame should be.

Parallax correction is not the same as a different field of view. The finder will definitely not cover 10 or 12mm. & I won't swear that it covers 17mm.
But the finder has a shutter that blacks it out when the camera is upside down. it a very symmetrical design.

Edited by Leo Anthony Vale, 06 March 2007 - 04:16 PM.

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#5 Joe Smith

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 04:33 PM

would anyone happen to know if this spool would work for a keystone a7? i haven't received the camera yet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...9QQcmdZViewItem

Edited by Joe Smith, 06 March 2007 - 04:33 PM.

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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 09:51 PM

would anyone happen to know if this spool would work for a keystone a7? i haven't received the camera yet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...9QQcmdZViewItem

yes, but why would you pay that much, (9 dollars hsipping) if you have a local film lab they can probaly "give" you a empty spool, they are generaly considered as trash when the film has been processed - if not they are only worth a couple of bucks. TRy b&W film factory or the lab you intend to use.

I have a A3, A7 and A9 the finder is small and covers the normal lens, and has a Very small square marked out to show the view of the optional 3 inch lens. finders are not the strong point of a keystone, being an amazingly ssimple tin case camera is where they are at..

All have 16FPS, and they have several other speeds, one of which is going to be close to 24. 16FPS will be maked "normal"
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#7 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 12:51 AM

"I've frequently found Google and yahoo to be pretty much classified ads."

Agreed. That's pretty much all that's there regarding Keystone cameras. No one's started a site dedicated to Keystone movie cameras as yet.

"I doubt that they have single frame and am not sure if they take cable release."

I do recall one ebay seller claiming that his Keystone camera had single frame capability...

"Parallax correction is not the same as a different field of view."

And who said that it was? Parallax correction is a means of compensating for the difference in 'viewpoint' between the taking lens and a non reflex viewfinder when photographing at short distances or when using a long focal length lens. However, the field of view of the lens must be taken into account when designing whatever type of parallax correction the camera will be using so that the photographer has a rough estimation of what will appear on the film when composing the 'shot.' In the case of a non reflex camera with interchangeable lenses, there may be a series of different markings in the viewfinder to indicate the angle of view, as well as the amount of adjustment in composition required, for the different lenses, or in the case of some cameras, multiple 'viewfinder lenses' with markings of their own for each lens. Though with the Keystone, I was assuming there would be no standard 'frame markings', or parallax compensation markings, for very wide lenses.

By the way, roughly how large is a 16mm Keystone camera?
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#8 Joe Smith

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:00 AM

i don't have a local lab, i live in ohio.
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#9 Joe Smith

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 09:00 AM

that kind of sucks that mine is only 16fps, I gues ill be looking into somethine with 24.
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#10 Michael Carter

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 11:09 AM

that kind of sucks that mine is only 16fps, I gues ill be looking into somethine with 24.

A7 speeds are 10 - 64

SF on A9, not A7

I can send you a spool, Pittsburgh to Ohio one day. Contact me privately.

Michael

Edited by Michael Carter, 07 March 2007 - 11:10 AM.

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#11 Herb Montes

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 01:57 PM

I doubt that they have single frame and am not sure if they take cable release.


I have an A-9, it doesn't take a cable release but it does single frame.
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#12 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 02:17 PM

[quote name='Patrick Cooper' date='Mar 7 2007, 12:51 AM' post='159111']
Agreed. That's pretty much all that's there regarding Keystone cameras. No one's started a site dedicated to Keystone movie cameras as yet.
[/quote]

http://www.movie-cam.../keystonee.html

[/quote]
"Parallax correction is not the same as a different field of view."

And who said that it was?

[/quote]
By the way, roughly how large is a 16mm Keystone camera?
[/quote]

from the 1939 'ASC Handbook and Reference Guide':

Keystone A7 speeds Special features
1938 Model 8,12,16,24,32,48,64 Monocular view finder Footage recorder and signal,
convenient pocket size

Keystone A3 speeds Special features
1938 Model 8, 16,60 Monocular view finder Audible footage signal,
convenient pocket size

There must have been some big pockets back then. And a bell rings every foot.

from the 1953 'ASC Handbook and Reference Guide':

more later
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#13 Michael Carter

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 06:44 PM

would anyone happen to know if this spool would work for a keystone a7? i haven't received the camera yet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...9QQcmdZViewItem



Wait 'till it arrives. They usually have an empty reel in them. The last one I got had a full reel of exposed KII.

Michael Carter
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#14 Joe Smith

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:49 PM

actually i don't think ill be needing it, i just ordered some 8662 and 7205 :).
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#15 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 07:54 AM

"1938 Model 8, 16,60 Monocular view finder Audible footage signal,
convenient pocket size

There must have been some big pockets back then."

That reminds me of a joke from the 70s UK comedy The Goodies. In the episode about movies, Graeme Garden talks about a so called 'pocket sized' movie camera and brings out this movie camera that's larger than a man's torso. One of the other Goodies asks how that can fit in a pocket. Graeme replies: "Well you need the right type of pocket" and reveals that his trousers have an oversized pocket running the whole length of his leg and stuffs the camera in there.
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#16 James Erd

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:05 AM

that kind of sucks that mine is only 16fps, I gues ill be looking into somethine with 24.


Mine was as well. Other than that I didn't have too many complaints for my $17 camera. I thought about taking the clockwork motor out and replacing it with an electric, but that would have ruined its charm. I can't remember what finally became of that camer either. :unsure:
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#17 Joe Smith

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 09:12 AM

actually its has rates from 10-64 like the person previously said.
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#18 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 09:33 PM

Keystone A7 speeds 1938 Model 8,12,16,24,32,48,64
Keystone A3 speeds 1938 Model 8, 16,60

to be fair, the A3 has a couple of "unmarked" speeds, so you can probaly adjust one of them to run close to 24.
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#19 Joe Smith

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 03:30 PM

i got my a-7 today! :) it has a strong motor and a spool.
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#20 Joe Smith

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 03:46 PM

next step is modding to take single perf
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