Jump to content


Photo

A question about the Arri 235


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Cody Lundmark

Cody Lundmark

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 08 March 2007 - 06:17 PM

I am a student trying to some how magically shoot a film on the 235. I understand that this camera is M.O.S. My question is, how noisy is it? Is it possible to shoot with location sound or is it pretty loud?
  • 0

#2 Nathan Milford

Nathan Milford
  • Sustaining Members
  • 692 posts
  • Director
  • New York, NY

Posted 08 March 2007 - 06:59 PM

It sounds like a blender. A loud blender. Blending a loud-berry smoothie that isn't so smooth.

There is a reason why ARRI doesn't list a dB spec... because it is, as you've stated yourself, not in anyway intended for the purpose of shooting near a microphone.

So, this is what you do to remedy that problem:

Place your actors far away, out of doors, up wind on a windy day near a highway. Rent some wireless lavs, or get creative with placing mics in shrubs and rent a 500mm or so lens. Place your camera a quarter mile away and shoot at small apertures so you're focus puller doesn't have a heart attack. Then, once everything is in the can, put your actors in an ADR studio and loop all their dialogue and proclaim loudly that this is what you meant to do in the first place.

OR

Rent a 35BL or MovieCam or even an Aaton 35-III and shoot the movie you intended without any expensive ADR studio time. You'll save money and have a better movie even if you, for whatever reason, were getting the 235 for free.

Good luck and godspeed :)
  • 0

#3 Tim Hennessy

Tim Hennessy

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 08 March 2007 - 09:28 PM

The Aaton 35 scratches, on average, every six mags or so. It is also difficult to load and maybe not the best camera for a first time 35 project.
  • 0

#4 Nathan Milford

Nathan Milford
  • Sustaining Members
  • 692 posts
  • Director
  • New York, NY

Posted 08 March 2007 - 10:25 PM

The Aaton 35 scratches, on average, every six mags or so. It is also difficult to load and maybe not the best camera for a first time 35 project.


While not the quietest, feature-rich nor easiest to load 35mm camera around I feel I cannot let that pass.

In defense of the Aaton 35, a camera I have shot with on many occasions and know more or less better than most people, yes it is difficult to load, but only scratches when you don't know what you're doing.

I've shot a few shorts on it in addition to shooting tests regularly with the one we have at Abel as well as scratch testing every magazine each time it rents. I have, on only rare occasions, seen it scratch (when loaded by a competant assistant). And at that point it was because of raised and worn insulation interfering with the film path.

That said, I would prefer to shoot on an ARRICAM or a Moviecam anyday.
  • 0

#5 Tim Hennessy

Tim Hennessy

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 09 March 2007 - 03:33 AM

Absolutely correct. My apologies for slandering the Aaton 35. User error is usually the main culprit with most things and I failed to acknowledge that. Being that you work at Abel you would know much more than I about that camera. I?ve only worked with it a few times and my comments relied primarily on the reputation and ?horror? stories I have heard about the camera from other competent assistants. I was looking for something to post about because I got an email a while ago saying my membership would be ended if I wasn?t posting, I guess in order to make room for people who used the site to it?s full potential. Is that still the case? I like reading but don?t post anything. So, anyways, I was shooting from the hip to a certain degree, but my intention was to be helpful and maybe steer the questioner away from the Aaton 35 for his first 35 shoot. Personally I found loading it fun and everything turned out fine. But something you said should be taken into consideration "when loaded by a competent assistant"...not usually the case on student films. I think the Aaton 35 is still a bad idea for a student. Unless of course the student and or his assistant are well versed with difficult displacement mags you have to completely thread in the dark. I think I will lurk back into the shadows and only read these forums.
  • 0

#6 Mike Panczenko

Mike Panczenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera
  • Philadelphia, USA

Posted 09 March 2007 - 08:44 AM

I think I will lurk back into the shadows and only read these forums.


Tim, no one would want that! :P I've been hearing amazing things about your LA move- big kudos to you on that! Keep posting and share that big time LA assistant info.

Hope you're well, Tim!
  • 0

#7 Nathan Milford

Nathan Milford
  • Sustaining Members
  • 692 posts
  • Director
  • New York, NY

Posted 09 March 2007 - 09:13 AM

I think the Aaton 35 is still a bad idea for a student. Unless of course the student and or his assistant are well versed with difficult displacement mags you have to completely thread in the dark.


I quite agree and I don't think it is a camera that someone should just pick up and assume it works like any other and use it in a pinch. Like the A-Minima, I don't think of it as a general purpose camera and you have to work around it's quirks for it to become a truly useful tool.

In a perfect world, one wouldn't have to be a technician and work with these cameras everyday to be able to use them thoughtlessly like I tend to do. I end up on the occasional set of a Panavision or ARRI shoot where the AC's are completely baffled by the camera because they haven't spent enough time with them and they load so completely differently. I am, sometimes, very defensive of the lesser Aatons (i.e. not of the LTR->Xtera line) as they get a bad rap and are many times labeled fussy, temperamental or fragile when many times their idiosyncrasies that make them so different from other cameras are a result of design choices to make them more fault-tolerant, rugged and robust. People sometimes just can't load them in a pinch without a proper introduction to them.

Many of these quirks will be dealt with in Penelope which we hope to see before the end of the year.

I think I will lurk back into the shadows and only read these forums.

I think that would be a tragedy. You're obviously a man of experience and someone whose insight could be a valuable asset to this forum and it's voluminous database of knowledge.
  • 0

#8 Hal Smith

Hal Smith
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2280 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • OKC area

Posted 09 March 2007 - 09:41 AM

It sounds like a blender. A loud blender. Blending a loud-berry smoothie that isn't so smooth.

Or a Nascar Nextel cup car running at 10X.
  • 0

#9 Tony Brown

Tony Brown
  • Sustaining Members
  • 689 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London

Posted 09 March 2007 - 08:35 PM

In defense of the Aaton 35, a camera I have shot with on many occasions and know more or less better than most people, yes it is difficult to load, but only scratches when you don't know what you're doing.


My 235 scratches and my assistants certainly know what they are doing. Its driving us nuts.
  • 0

#10 Charlie Peich

Charlie Peich
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 238 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chicago

Posted 11 March 2007 - 09:04 AM

My 235 scratches and my assistants certainly know what they are doing. Its driving us nuts.


Tony,
I remember you talking about this a couple of months back... still no fix on this problem? What does Arri say? How often does the "scratching" happen, and where on the film? Have you heard of other 235s with the problem? I?m sorry to hear you?re still having problems.
  • 0

#11 Tony Brown

Tony Brown
  • Sustaining Members
  • 689 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London

Posted 11 March 2007 - 10:11 AM

Tony,
I remember you talking about this a couple of months back... still no fix on this problem? What does Arri say? How often does the "scratching" happen, and where on the film? Have you heard of other 235s with the problem? I?m sorry to hear you?re still having problems.


The camera was apparently put into an environmental chamber at Arri GB as we normally shoot in hot climates. They said they'd found nothing. However when our rep went down there it appeared straight away. As you view rushes its slightly left of centre. Happens on just about every job on one or two shots. If build up is noticed we do a couple of extra takes obviously, but sometimes there is no noticable build up

I was also disappointed with the response from Arri Munich, who basically said ' well nobody else has complained'. Not impressed with that degree of customer service, especially as its still under warranty. I know how understated Munich can be having gear checked there a few times as a 1st AC, but that was shocking.

I wouldn't buy another camera new from Arri thats for sure.
  • 0


Opal

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Glidecam

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Opal

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

CineLab

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

The Slider