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#1 Sam Nichols

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:22 AM

Hi there,

I have a long term plan to study Broadcasting Production at Ravensbourne College before entering into the world of Media [hopefully!].

My heart really lies with camera work and editing so I'd like to focuse on this.



I've only ever worked with Adobe and having recently switched to HDV i'm going to need to upgrade my editing software. I don't think i'll be sticking with Adobe and as such I'd like to move towards something that will allow me to step over into industry standard editing software. I'm not really sure where to turn and what to go for!

Really I'd like a stepping stone to the type of software I'll be expected to use in the industry.



Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, Sam.
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#2 Sam Nichols

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:40 AM

I forgot to mention I'm running windows!

Thanks!
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#3 David Auner aac

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 10:26 AM

Really I'd like a stepping stone to the type of software I'll be expected to use in the industry.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, Sam.


Hi Sam,

I use Avid XpressDV, which I really like. I haven't cut any HDV so far, so I can't tell you any specifics about that. But to me, main advantage of Xpress is the close likeness to larger Avid systems (yes, there are differences, but the feel & logic is the same nevertheless). So you can sit down in any major Avid editing suite (Media Composer, Symphony) and start cutting your film there after some 30 minutes of getting used to a slightly different keyboard and screen layout. Around my place (Austria & Central Europe) Avid is by far the most common pro editing system. Period.
Another advantage is the fact that Avid was developed by film editors in need for a computer based nonlinear editing system and not by software engineers trying to make money on selling such a system. In Avid there are at least three ways of doing one and the same thing. They all work, you ought to find the one way that suits you and your project most. I like that approach!
I have worked on Premiere a bit, I hate that program. Gives me the creeps, but some folks seem to like it and edit really nice films using it. Same goes for Final Cut, but I have never used it, since I've got no Mac.

My 2 cents on editing software, HTH!

Best regards, Dave

Edited by David Auner, 29 March 2007 - 10:28 AM.

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#4 Ken Cangi

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 11:10 AM

Hi Sam,

I am also a PC user, and I have no interest in changing over to Mac, so my options eventually boiled down to Avid or Vegas.

I did extensive test driving of Final Cut Studio, Avid Express Pro, and Vegas7+DVD Production Suite , and I chose Vegas. It does essentially everything that Avid does, and it does it in a much more user-friend way. Avid, on the other hand, is one of the two industry standard NLE's so it is probably the way to go if you are planning on a job in post-production. I am an indie filmmaker, so editing is done in my studio. I am confident that anyone that I eventually hire, who has a working knowledge of editing, will easily adapt to Vegas.

People will tend to bias the NLE that they are used to, so you are best off to test drive them yourself. Vegas sometimes gets pushed aside because of its lower price, but don't be fooled. It is a powerful program, and, if you were to build a Sony package comparable to FC Studio, the price would be basically the same. The other big benefit of Vegas is that it is made to work well even on under-powered machines.

The learning curve on Avid is higher, but it also a great program. Be prepared, however to invest in an expensive system on which to run it properly.

As I said, you must consider your future roll in post-production. Are you going to mostly edit your own films, or are you planning a career in commercial post-production? The best way to decide is to spend some time on each program, via trail versions.

Best of luck.

KC

Edited by Ken Cangi, 29 March 2007 - 11:13 AM.

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#5 Sam Wells

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 11:39 AM

With NAB looming in April I'd stay tuned and see what is announced / released there.

It looks like the new FCP 6. (plus the Final Cut Extreme ? - which would give the desktop / laptop FCP user the same relationship to a high powered system as exist with Avid).

Adobe are supporting Intel Mac now - I'd expect them to be aggressive (PC users will benefit I'm sure).

I use FCP, I'm not buying any extra SW oreven plugins until I see what is included in FCP 6; what they do with their Final Touch purchase; etc.

At least you can asses the options after this show and try and see who's going where.

-Sam
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#6 Ken Cangi

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 12:03 PM

It looks like the new FCP 6. (plus the Final Cut Extreme ? - which would give the desktop / laptop FCP user the same relationship to a high powered system as exist with Avid).

-Sam

Ten Grand is pretty steep if you have to purchase it yourself, not to mention the hardware to drive it. Sounds like a serious program.

http://www.thinksecr.../finalcut6.html
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#7 Chris Purchase

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 01:06 PM

NAB is an excellent idea

I also completely agree that individuals bias towards Avid or FCP for no other reason than an inexplicable personal preference. I learned to edit on Avid and therefore loath using FCP. that said, I have a Mac at home with FCPHD on it on which I have cut numerous terrestrial tv shows and commercial projects. I've been learning to love it for a year or so now.

If you want to be an editor of drama or film then Avid pro suites with Media Composer (Adrenalines, Nitris, any other DNA products) are definitely the perfect place to be. But you'd be foolish to buy one (the cost is upwards of £20,000 for an adrenaline system that can edit online resolution). Just get a runners job at an editing house and keep nagging to get trained. DV Express will be a good learning tool but nothing more in my opinion.

TV and commercial work is tending to lean more and more towards FCP not only because it is thousands of £s cheaper than any comparable Avid system but also its creative capabilities and ease of use with After effects etc. My MacBook Pro and FCPHD system was £3200 all in. I've just finished part of a lovely Lynx campaign for MTV and they were overjoyed with the results of the edit and the effects used. More importantly I saved thousands on Edit costs which paid for the entire system in one go.

If you are buying it yourself and have to run windows then DV express is the best you are going to get and unless you are on some serious kit (even with an Avid Mojo connected) it still won't be as quick as FCP. I've been there and been very frustrated. That's the industry standard and will teach you the right way of thinking around your shortcuts, the mentality of your workflows etc.

As with everything in our business, test it and go for the option you can afford. FCP is the most professional, cheap option in my opinion (if you can afford it) and you'd be a naive not to consider a mac system even if you are a comfortable PC kinda-guy.

Sounds like an exciting time and many of the people I have worked with came from Ravensbourne. I've only heard good things about that place!

Good luck with it!
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#8 Sam Nichols

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 09:12 AM

Thanks for all the replies.. I'm astounded at how helpful you all are!

Going down the road of purchasing a mac seems logical the more i think about it now. Having looked into the windows compatible suites that people have suggested it looks like unless i'm going to stay with DV I'm going to need to spend some serious money on upgrades. Whereas a mac desktop is very cheap considering the power.

The real million dollar question for me now is do i buy a mac and run FCP or do i spend similar money on a new box/upgrades for my current box and then test drive vegas and avid etc.


Something for me to mull over now! Thanks again guys, most helpful!
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#9 Dory Breaux DP

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 10:27 AM

My 2 cents worth...

Stay with windows and get Avid Xpress. I am trying to teach myself how to use it, and its a challenge, but I can already tell that it will have a lot more capability then Premiere or anything else I've used. I am an anti-mac/FCP guy, I just hate them both for some reason.

Hope that helps a little bit...
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#10 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 09:38 PM

I have worked on Premiere a bit, I hate that program. Gives me the creeps...

What's creepy about it? You want creepy, try Edius. Now that's a truly strange program, with all those little unexplained icons and timecode window that takes up a third of your viewing screen!
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