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big artifacts after a luster DI ????


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#1 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 09:04 AM

hi
the film is shot in 35/3 perfs on kodak5218 aspect ratio : 2:35 shot with primos
the worflow an HD scan, 2K, the a DI in luster incinarator.
the print 0 is made from a shoot after DI from the HD.
the series print are from an inter neg.

projection from the print series shoxs alot of artifacts from the takes that came from strong grading.
artifacts are electronicnoise in the blacks and electronic whites clipping

does it come from an inapropriate LUT ?

it's the first film of this new post house and they just received the luster.

what is your opinion
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 09:07 AM

hi
the film is shot in 35/3 perfs on kodak5218 aspect ratio : 2:35 shot with primos
the worflow an HD scan, 2K, the a DI in luster incinarator.
the print 0 is made from a shoot after DI from the HD.
the series print are from an inter neg.

projection from the print series shoxs alot of artifacts from the takes that came from strong grading.
artifacts are electronicnoise in the blacks and electronic whites clipping

does it come from an inapropriate LUT ?

it's the first film of this new post house and they just received the luster.

what is your opinion


Hi,

What do you mean by HD Scan? Telecine to HDCAM?

What was done @ 2k?

Has the post house done this before, or is your job their first test?

Stephen
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 09:32 AM

Yes, what format was being used? 4:4:4 10-bit Log HDCAM-SR? 2K RGB? HD-D5 or HDCAM?

Obviously an overly aggressive color-correction will generate non-film-like artifacts no matter what the system.

The other question is how was the image monitored during the correction? 2K DLP projection? HD CRT monitor?

If the film-out doesn't look like the grade during the color-correcting process, maybe the company should start from scratch and track where things went wrong. Surely they are just as concerned as you are that it didn't turn out right.

This is one reason why D.I. companies spend a lot of time testing their workflow to make sure that the film-out looks similar to how it looked during the digital color-correction sessions. I don't think the problem is particularly with the Lustre.
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#4 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 10:40 AM

well
i don't think it's a luster pb either
I'm not the dop on this job
i was told that after editing they kept the "hd" tape from telecine and didn't scan again from the edl

somehow i'm sure they drop the ball in post prod and it can be in many different parts.

the shot not color corrected look good on the final print
what would be a workflow that would make sens?

to me they did a cheap telecine in "hd" and a tape to tape transfer prior to shoot

the dop told me it didn't looked in the color corection room like in the final print.

they first saw a print 0 from the neg that wasn't as bad as the one i saw from the interneg.

will an interneg amplifie a problem you could barely see from a neg?
i asume it xas graded from an hd monitor.

i don't think the post house did any testing prio to this job, i think they are practicing with our film which is no big deal if they deliver a good job. but here men it's one of the most terrible print i ever saw!

does 2k means 1920x1080? which means HD or i'm i mixing all this
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 10:50 AM

Either they transferred and color-corrected it in the HD realm, which is a video format, or they did it in the data realm of uncompressed 2K RGB.

But even in HD, there are different HD formats. Using 10-bit Linear 4:2:2 HD-D5 or worse, 8-bit 3:1:1 HDCAM will look more "video-ish" for a D.I. than using 10-bit Log 4:4:4 HDCAM-SR.

10-bit Log 4:4:4 HDCAM-SR should look similar to 10-bit Log 2K RGB data. However, when color-correcting Log scans, your monitor needs a properly set-up LUT to view the material in linear video color space.

You need to ask them:

what was used for scanning (Spirit, Spirit 4K, Northlight, Arriscanner, etc.)
to what format (what HD tape format, or if 2K)
what format was it color-corrected in (HD, 2K, etc.)
how was it monitored during color-correcting (HD CRT, 2K projector)
what was used for the film recording (Arrilaser usually)
to what film format (internegative usually)

But what it comes down to, if it looks bad, looks like a mistake was made, they should redo it unless they want a bad reputation.

And what it really comes down to is that you shouldn't be the one trying to figure out where things went wrong -- they should be trying to figure it out. It's their equipment! What does the engineer for the facility have to say? The colorists?
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#6 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:11 AM

hi thanks
i'm trying to figure out what happened because this could have happened to me.
i'm learning with thoses mistakes bcause i don't want to be in a situation like this when i'll get to deal with post house workflow and "sharky" productions who are able to kill my job to save some bucks in post production

thanks anyway for your expertise, i understand that you don't have enougth elements to give an advice.

thhank you also for the information regarding camera gear in LA, finaly went to mole in hollywod.
I saw there a fantastic movie theatre "archlight" with the amazing dome!!! unfortunatly a saw the terrible bikker movie. too bad i couldn't see "the astronaut farmer", i was invited by a client.
was the astronaut farmer projected in digital too?
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:37 AM

hi thanks
i'm trying to figure out what happened because this could have happened to me.
i'm learning with thoses mistakes bcause i don't want to be in a situation like this when i'll get to deal with post house workflow and "sharky" productions who are able to kill my job to save some bucks in post production

thanks anyway for your expertise, i understand that you don't have enougth elements to give an advice.

thhank you also for the information regarding camera gear in LA, finaly went to mole in hollywod.
I saw there a fantastic movie theatre "archlight" with the amazing dome!!! unfortunatly a saw the terrible bikker movie. too bad i couldn't see "the astronaut farmer", i was invited by a client.
was the astronaut farmer projected in digital too?


Hi,

Getting a good DI is not cheap & easy, that is usually the problem.

A company without experiance offers a DI service at a good price, without the necessary know how. They will also skimp on testing, grading with a HD Monitor.

Stephen
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#8 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:42 AM

when you make feature that is planned to be post produce with a certain DI route do you have a contract signed that tell the workflow, in case they change theire mind and put your work down or do you simply remove your name from the credit?
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#9 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:57 AM

was the astronaut farmer projected in digital too?


No, only released in film prints.

In regards to D.I.'s, you're sort of at the mercy of the deal your producer arranges. You should be advising them, of course, hopefully have some options to choose from, but otherwise, since D.I.'s are so expensive, often you are asked to accept certain compromises. Now of course you can threaten to pull your name from the movie credits if you feel the D.I. has ruined the look, but you also risk never working for that producer again.
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