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vision1 versus vision2 500t


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#1 thomas-english

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 08:04 PM

I just bought a fridge full of vision 500T the predecessor to vision2 . I am going to shoot a music video on it on tuesday. Mostly exteriors (85bND9 to hand). I was wondering, what are the main differences between vision1 and vision2 ? Anything I should know about? I mean, it s a promo so I am not that bothered with exact skin tones etc but please let me know what to expect.

Funnily enough I also have some EXR500T what was that like? All I ve heard so far is that its the days before TK and wide latitude.

Is it best to pull process with these stocks? especially if shooting in daylight....

Thankyou very much indeed for your time

thomas
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#2 Michael Nash

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 08:38 PM

The main thing I'd be worried about with older stock is how well it's been stored. It's worth doing some tests before embarking on a major shoot with it.

Vision 7279 500T was a great stock, with more "character" than 7218. The biggest difference is in grain; in 16mm you'll definitely see more compared to '18, but it can look really good in low-key scenes with lots of dark areas. It pushes the shadows a little darker-looking than 18 (a little nicer in my opinion), but still holds about the same range. Color is a bit more saturated and skin tones go a little redder.

Under normal conditions you wouldn't have to pull-process '79 to get a good look, although you might want to overexpose it a bit in daylight to tighten up the grain. But again, I think the biggest concern is how well the film has been stored and just protecting your image from any possible fogging that may have ocurred over time. To that end, I think maybe overexposure is your best protection. Maybe others here (like Dominic) have more experience with outdated film...

EXR 500T 7298 was grainier still, but also had a nice "character" to it. Fairly colorful and linear in its contrast range, like the other EXR stocks. But again, that stuff would be so old that its "unique characteristics" wouldn't matter as much as just getting a useable image out of it!
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:19 PM

"TK" stands for telecine, and telecines date back way before the EXR line of stocks.

The EXR line was the first Kodak color negative line with T-grain in all layers. There were two EXR 500T stocks, '96 (intro 1989) and then the replacement '98 (intro 1994). Vision 500T '79 came out in 1996.

Basically the EXR line was a little more contrasty than the Vision line, which is a little more contrasty than the new Vision-2 line.

If you want to reduce the contrast and graininess for telecine transfer, it may help to overexpose and pull-process '79, assuming your lab offers pull-processing for 16mm. But the improvement would not be significant --- as Michael says, overexposing may be enough, especially to compensate for any loss of blacks and sensitivity from aging.
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#4 thomas-english

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 05:15 AM

gentlemen! thankyou.
1/2 a stop over? or just my normal 1/3 overexposed? Or are you suggesting even more?


I believe this stock has been in a fridge it s entire life. I camerahouse expanded into the studio next door and found the fridge full of stock. Then again.... who knows... could have spent a month on a ditch by the side of the road in morroco for all I know. This promo will be a test for it anyway... let s face it... I can t go too far wrong on the vision500t.

The EXR500t I had better clip test.
Thanks for all the help!


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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 09:18 AM

I'd use at least 2/3's of a stop if not a full stop of overexposure for the oldest stock.
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#6 thomas-english

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 11:28 AM

Much appreciated. On my vision500T I will go 2/3rd s of a stop over. Knock out this promo, super low budget and I am probably going to end up pulling my own sharps. Ill shoot a colour chart on one of the rolls at regular exposure with a whiteboard asking the TK op. what he thinks of the stock. At a promo for £900 ! it s going straight to a bestlight and is going to stay handheld all day.


The EXR500t I will clip test, theoretically though if correctly refridgerated it s whole life it could be fine?

This forum is fantastic, much apreciated.
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Glidecam

The Slider

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Opal

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

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Rig Wheels Passport

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

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