Edited by Jim Jannard, 09 April 2007 - 12:36 AM.
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34 replies to this topic
Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:35 AM
It is quite interesting that as soon as it was announced that Timur was shooting RED for "Wanted"... this board got very quiet.
Edited by Jim Jannard, 09 April 2007 - 12:36 AM.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:43 AM
Maybe some of us are waiting for NAB to see what's going to happen or really wait unit the camera hits the market.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:49 AM
Really? I keep havin' to turn it down.
And I listen to RATM.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:49 AM
That didn't stop anyone before from posting...
Edited by Jim Jannard, 09 April 2007 - 12:52 AM.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:58 AM
Let me ask you an honest question... do you really care what we think?
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:01 AM
Actually... no. From the beginning, this board has been negative. If I'd have listened to this board, we would have never done this camera. I guess there is some satisfaction that this board has inspired us to continue.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:06 AM
I love it when the under dog triumphs. Keep dropping jaw's jim.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:18 AM
Well, of course you care, because you have quantified it. Doesn't make much sense to ask for opinions again at this point, then say you don't care. I get that, sometimes I think I'm most influenced by the films I hate the most. They compel me to do something completely different than them. Even though I adamantly dislike these films, sure, I do care about them, because I pay close attention to them and consider what didn't work, aesthetically or otherwise. I think it's the same thing. Or maybe I'm just crazy.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:23 AM
Jim, I thought you recently told us to hold our opinions until NAB... which is what we are doing.
I think you should let the camera speak for itself at this point rather than rehash old arguments. The fact that there was so much skepticism before the camera was finished should only tell you how much you and the RED team managed to accomplish in such a short time, which you have to admit was a major task. Skepticism can only be a compliment at this point; imagine if you had announced your laundry list of goals a year ago and instead of being skeptical, we went "(yawn)... 4K camera... sounds easy, so why haven't you done it yet?"
Now you want to pick a fight with your skeptics, just at the time when you should be wiping the slate clean of old arguments and starting fresh with a real camera that you can show people? Just when the skeptics were starting to be less skeptical?
Please, don't go down that path. You'll regret it. It's like tearing a scab that was finally healing.
You still have a whole film industry to sell this camera to and you want to start building long-term relationships now, not creating an enemies list, not holding grudges, otherwise you'll find your company marginalized. Panavision and Arri are successful not just because they make good cameras, but because they forge long-term client relationships.
If you keep encouraging this "either you're on our side or you're the enemy" taking of sides, you're only going to scare away potential customers who simply want to buy a good camera, not join a war. I don't see the point of keeping this partisan approach going just at the point you are about to introduce the camera to the world. The story will end up not being about the camera, it will be about this silly war. You and your company has to start acting like the adults here and be above the petty arguments, regardless of how other people act. If you take everything personally, no one is going to take your company seriously. Camera designers and managers from Sony, Panavision, Arriflex, Aaton, etc. don't come onto internet forums and get into little arguments with potential customers.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:26 AM
You are right... hold your opinions until NAB... :-)
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:29 AM
let's call it: Red Fatigue.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:34 AM
Yeah there some true film lovers here that don't like HD... to me it doesn't matter anymore... if I can shoot HD on a smaller feature and save money... or really put that money in better known talent... I'm all for it...
But to be honest I got tired of the nasty pm's sent... "oh you don't know what your talking about this camera is only going to cost this much too shoot with"... "its a camera for the little guy"...
No its a pro camera once it hits the market and stay on the market... once the $17.5 price was talked about from there on... I said this is for a guy who can't afford a Cine Alta... or Varicam...
I can even remember getting chewed out in a nasty pm... when I posted that I thought by the time you buy the matte box, follow focus, the Red zoom, tripod, etc, for shooting and then guessing what you would need in post... the whole deal might run you $60k... I posted that's not bad... that's the price of a Varicam body... and you'll get 35mm dof with that...
Then there was the strange email from some guy that he was being sued or something from yourself... if your still online... it was kinda of reminded me of a guy who talks about little green men...
But I think some took it that if you say... well it all sounds great... but until I can go out and shoot with it... see what the workflow is... its not real... it was taken as being negative by yourself and those who put down a $1,000...
So maybe you can see it from my side of the fence...
Ah see it works both ways... by writing here... my writers block is no longer there...
Edited by Gary McClurg, 09 April 2007 - 01:36 AM.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:45 AM
Now what is really fun... is trying to fix a typo... and the edit button is not showing up...
I guess you only get one edit...
Well its back to writing...
Edited by Gary McClurg, 09 April 2007 - 01:46 AM.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:21 AM
No edit button necessary...
Posted 09 April 2007 - 04:00 AM
Jim, not that my opinion should matter all that much to you - I'll probably never be a customer simply due to lack of funds - but I have to agree with David on this one. I think he's summed it up well, as he so often does.
I've followed the Red project for months now out of interest in the project and its implications for the motion picture industry. I love the fact that glimpses of the camera's development have been doled out bit by bit, sustaining a high level of interest for quite some time. I think that reservation holders must feel privileged to see their cameras designed and built from scratch in front of their eyes, especially when they offered feedback and suggestions that were actually incorporated.
So, maybe I'm missing something, maybe I haven't read all of the right threads, maybe I'm late to the party, or maybe it's just me - but the overwhelming feeling that I get from Red as a company at this point is not that pleasant. It could just be a result of your team vigorously defending your project at every turn due to overwhelming skepticism - that seems to lend itself to a very unapproachable, tense quality surrounding the project, despite the boundaries that you're breaking and the trends that you'll probably set. I can't help but to think it would be so much more effective to bite your tongue and present the "I told you so" in the form of a finished camera that meets or beats everyone's expectations.
Threads like this one certainly don't help my impression. I guess I just find it disconcerting that a self-made billionaire feels the need to provoke a conflict like this in an Internet forum. Like David said, most of the "anti-Red" arguments have been petty, and I feel they don't even deserve a response on your part. I find it admirable that you're so open and accessible in your professional pursuits - but conversely, I find it disturbing that you've been so quick to engage your random detractors on a personal, almost childish level.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 04:15 AM
I agree with David on this, let the camera speak.
The Internet conflict is all part of viral marketing - those threads with the most extreme opinions being expressed were the ones that had the largest number of people viewing.
However, it's now time for things to settle down and people to let decide on how useful the RED camera will be to their future productions.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 06:06 AM
So? Getting on to a decade ago a small-but-perfectly-formed cinematic maverick by the name George Lucas announced that he was going to use the CineAlta to shoot Star Wars Episode 2. That set of a real avalanche of Digital Movie production, didn't it.
But OK, I'll bite.
ASSUMING that your camera is everything you say it is, and when you finally start the actual deliveries to actual customers:
What sort of infrastructure do you plan to have in place for after-sales service, in the event that something goes wrong with one of the cameras, (and it will, trust me).
Are you going to have some sort of 24-hour helpline for instance? Service agents in other countries?
Please don't tell us again about Oakley's record of warranty backup. It's one thing to fix or replace a pair of sunglasses, it's quite another to sort out a high-tech item like the RED.
Posted 09 April 2007 - 06:21 AM
Underdog? Fer chrissake, the guy's a multi millionaire. Only in America is he an underdog.
I'm afraid now this whole affair has left such a bitter aftertaste I doubt I'll ever want to have anything to do with the damn camera.