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apple supports red


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#1 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 01:40 PM

fresh in from NAB:

Final Cut pro will support redcode native for editing and DI.
shipping july.
price 3495$.
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#2 Eirik Tyrihjel

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:03 PM

There is a Quicktime film up on Apples website at http://www.apple.com...tion/?movie=nab which describes the RED camera project and how it integrates with Final Cut 6.

Look for the link on the bottom right.

I have a feeling NAB will be a RED fest!

(BTW: The price has NOT changed. The full FCP package is still 1300$..)

Edited by Eirik Tyrihjel, 15 April 2007 - 03:06 PM.

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#3 Eirik Tyrihjel

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 03:50 PM

Direct link to filmclip:

http://images.apple....red20070414.mov
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#4 Richard Boddington

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 05:03 PM

I think it's interesting the guy in the video says, "...high rez files that can't be characterized as video and certainly can't be characterized as film."

He was right about that, the Red output still looks like glorified DV. It's not even remotely close to the "film look." Of course if Red is not striving for that, then they have achieved their goal.

I'm sure the system will sell well and many will be happy with it. I hope lots of indie filmmakers buy it, and even fewer shoot film as result. It makes it easier for those of us working with film to separate our work from the video pack. And come to think of it, all these film schools abandoning film also makes the future brighter for those of us that shoot film :D

R,

PS: Is that Jared Land in the BG?
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#5 Walter Graff

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 05:41 PM

Hey Apple finally caught up to companies like Decklink that have offered these uncompressed codecs for years with FCP. Isn't marketing amazing? Sort of like the whipped creme on top of the cake in the display. But once you bite into it, you find it taste like freezer burn. Anyway this promo will help the wannabes all waste even more money (they already did on the HVX thinking it was going to make them a filmmaker) on RED. A perfect camera it seems for the Jumblemouths. http://www.bluesky-web.com/jm.htm
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#6 Nathan Milford

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:38 PM

Hey Apple finally caught up to companies like Decklink that have offered these uncompressed codecs for years with FCP. Isn't marketing amazing? Sort of like the whipped creme on top of the cake in the display. But once you bite into it, you find it taste like freezer burn. Anyway this promo will help the wannabes all waste even more money (they already did on the HVX thinking it was going to make them a filmmaker) on RED. A perfect camera it seems for the Jumblemouths. http://www.bluesky-web.com/jm.htm



Fantastic definition Walter. That ought to be in the OED.
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#7 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:45 PM

I rather enjoyed the clip of the Coen Bros. as well. "Color" looks like a very user-friendly and more intuitive color correction tool.
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#8 Francesco Bonomo

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:52 PM

I don't know about the US, but around here "wannabees" don't go and spend more than 20k on a camera just because they "heard it's good" or "revolutionary". If they have access to that amount of money, 90% of the times they invest them on a short movie (shot on film or on video).

By the way, the Apple website has another interesting clip about the new FCS featuring Fincher (and the one about Color is really cool).
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#9 Walter Graff

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:18 PM

I don't know about the US, but around here "wannabees" don't go and spend more than 20k on a camera just because they "heard it's good" or "revolutionary".


In the US 'we' will waste any money we can. Credit cards help. I do know a few stories of some of these wannabes who forgoed paying rent for a HVX camera and at least one that caused himself serious financial setbacks spending money on the HVX, a camera he clearly could not afford. With the bigger promise that RED will make you even more of a filmmaker I would imagine there are some ready to sell the farm for a chance to own a magical camera that will transform one to nightly dinners and a cigar (RED brand of course) with some of Hollywood's biggest directors. And I am sure RED has a bunch of smoke can mirrors waiting for NAB so they can generate even more buzz and make it seem like the industry is going to forgo the switch to HD and simply go RED. Money can buy one anything in this world.

I do not know anyone who is on that supposed order list for RED but know that much of the viral marketing has been geared at the Jumblemouths who are excellent at spreading information. Considering the free marketing that RED gets from web sites (I would have charged to allow them to use my server for the types of viral marketing campaigns they are doing), they have been able to make RED a marketing phenomenon without even making a camera. I equate it to the Cabbage Patch Doll Phenomenon of the 80's. But as I said some time ago, it can also be a detriment as you have to deliver what you say and even more than what people expect. But more importantly, it has to be about more than the camera. People have to want it after the dust clears and your smoke and mirrors have faded, and you have to make associations with big entities to validate the cameras need and get those names to buy it in mass. No I don't mean telling me that Steven Spielberg is on the list. He and a few other major directors bought the HVX200 and what did that do for the camera after the smoke cleared and the Jumblemouths went from worshipping the HVX to RED? Right now as viral marketing goes, outside of the Jumblemouths, I don't personally know any professionals that are going into a deep freeze waiting for RED to be released. It's a niche camera that will fit into the many niches of HD, with none other than the major manufactures being the big sellers of any one particular camera. All the rest are just specialty cameras as will be RED as I see it. And as a professional who has spoken to many other working professionals about RED, the consensus from my camp is it sounds great but lets see what it does and namely if it survives the blight of HD marketing that is already over saturated now.
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#10 Ken Cangi

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:52 PM

I think the potential real-world value of this camera will lie in the rental market.

It's unlikely that indie makers will suddenly be able to afford 20k for a camera - 30 or 40 if you consider lenses and accessories. Consequently, its default market would seem to be professional rentals. This, IMO, would depend solely on its day rate. Even if its day rate were close to that of a 35mm camera, there is still a potentially large savings in avoiding the cost of film, processing, telecine, etc, but if it weren't considerably less expensive than Viper or Genesis, for instance, then I can't imagine why a filmmaker wouldn't choose one of them over it.

I have not personally used Viper and Genesis so I might be missing a lot here. I would be interested in what those who have think.

Edited by Ken Cangi, 15 April 2007 - 07:53 PM.

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#11 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 08:04 PM

ok.

so, this was day -1.

now, day 0 ist just hours ahead.
anyone?

however.
digital aquistion will eliminate/annihilate 35/765 within the next 5/10 years.

btw: be aware that tomorrow, when he show starts, the mayor announcmets will follow.
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#12 Frank Barrera

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 08:33 PM

Direct link to filmclip:

http://images.apple....red20070414.mov

sooo what was this piece shot with? Was it with a RED camera? just wondering... cuz it would be kinda funny if it wasn't...

Edited by Frank Barrera, 15 April 2007 - 08:33 PM.

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#13 Jim Simon

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 08:50 PM

"...high rez files that can't be characterized as video and certainly can't be characterized as film."


Not sure I agree with him completely. While the lens used to shoot the piece did allow for some nice DoF effects, overall it still looked like HD video. Certainly it didn't look like film.
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#14 Richard Boddington

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 08:55 PM

however.
digital aquistion will eliminate/annihilate 35/765 within the next 5/10 years.

btw: be aware that tomorrow, when he show starts, the mayor announcmets will follow.


Oh my gosh I'm laughing so hard I think my spleen is rupturing!!

Jan you should get your own comedy show, you're histerical!!

You're comment ranks right up there with another great comedian of our age, who is responsible for the following classics:

"Iraq has weapons of mass destruction."

"Mission Accomplished"

"You're doing a heck of a job Brownie!"

And another great comedian of a different sort:

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

R,
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#15 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:07 PM

Not sure I agree with him completely. While the lens used to shoot the piece did allow for some nice DoF effects, overall it still looked like HD video. Certainly it didn't look like film.


i think "it didnt look like film" will be considered as an archivement from here on, as flkm is just 2nd class quakily for many purposes.

however, one could still overlay noise/grain, if one is really deeply involved with systems, and not making movies.

ps. i do understand that the youngsters as mr. jacoby do share their opinion ("ballhaus bores me to death") in a rather obscene wording, however.... monday will bring them the next things to consider.
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#16 Hal Smith

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:15 PM

sooo what was this piece shot with? Was it with a RED camera? just wondering... cuz it would be kinda funny if it wasn't...

If Blondie in the blue jumpsuit gets anywhere near my horizontal bandsaw with a pipewrench and bolt cutter she'd better prepare for some major abuse. :D
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#17 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:19 PM

It's not even remotely close to the "film look." Of course if Red is not striving for that, then they have achieved their goal.

FYI: film look or whatever AC or clapper guys who might loose their job.... is just 2nd class. 1st class is havin artefact free, outstandinding images.

I'm sure the system will sell well and many will be happy with it.

i think you should be ware that red is by far the best seling cine,atic camera _ever_.

I hope lots of indie filmmakers buy it, and even fewer shoot film as result.

mr. boddington, i am used to spend >200.000$ a year on cameras and support - to be honest on cameras and gear you will not be allowed to lay your hand on, until its outdated is mainstream. does that make me an independent filmmaker?

It makes it easier for those of us working with film to separate our work from the video pack. And come to think of it, all these film schools abandoning film also makes the future brighter for those of us that shoot film


100% acknowledget.
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#18 Richard Boddington

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 09:55 PM

"FYI: film look or whatever AC or clapper guys who might loose their job.... is just 2nd class. 1st class is havin artefact free, outstandinding images."

Oh yeah video is 100% reliable. The heads never clog, decks never eat tapes, they are never affected by moisture, there are never any drop outs, hard drives never crash or lose data. Gimme a break, what freakazoid planet do you live on?

"to be honest on cameras and gear you will not be allowed to lay your hand on, until its outdated is mainstream"

What are you saying, I'll never be able to rent gear at your rental house?

R,
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#19 Tim Tyler

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 11:32 PM

Awww, sheeesh. Do I have to close down yet another Red thread?

Both of you stop your bickering, please.
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#20 Richard Boddington

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 11:47 PM

No problem Tim, how are the wife and kids? :rolleyes:

So once Red becomes official we can go back to debating it?

R,
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