Jump to content


Photo

Super 8 OWNS video


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Steven D. Troxell

Steven D. Troxell

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Director

Posted 16 April 2007 - 07:50 PM

So I'm pretty much done with video after seeing the geatness of super 8. I have a few questions I know I could search the forums but fresh answers are always nice.


1.I have a canon 518 auto zoom it's 18fps. I dont really plan on shooting sync sound stuff so does this matter?Is there an advantage in general shooting 24fps?

2.After I get it telecine(18fps) do i have to use a certain timeline in my NLE?(I use vegas)or will 29.97 work since thats what its gonna be captured at from my vc.

3.Built in light meter any good?

4.Who would you recomend for telecine/processing and all that jazz.

Sorry for being newbish but I need help.
  • 0

#2 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 16 April 2007 - 09:26 PM

So I'm pretty much done with video after seeing the geatness of super 8. I have a few questions I know I could search the forums but fresh answers are always nice.
1.I have a canon 518 auto zoom it's 18fps. I dont really plan on shooting sync sound stuff so does this matter?Is there an advantage in general shooting 24fps?

2.After I get it telecine(18fps) do i have to use a certain timeline in my NLE?(I use vegas)or will 29.97 work since thats what its gonna be captured at from my vc.

3.Built in light meter any good?

4.Who would you recomend for telecine/processing and all that jazz.

Sorry for being newbish but I need help.


Steven
Welcome to Super 8.
24fps is "better" in so far as there are more images so the motion is a little smoother, but don't hesitate to shoot 18, especially if you are not doing sync sound. That's usually the deal-maker/breaker with 18 vs 24 because 18fps is transferred to video at 20 fps so there is a speed change. Without sound to keep in sync you won't notice the slight speed change.

Once it's on tape it is 29.97 fps video so no changes required to your NLE timeline.

Generally I rely on the built-in meters, so try it, but make sure it's working as you'd expect. Point at light and see how quickly it responds, and slowly move aaway from the light and see how accurately it responds. If it's "lazy" check that the meter batteries are not losing their power. Fresh meter batteries definitely recommended. Use the light meter for readings only, and go into manual and set the aperture where you want it. Shooting it auto will be too limiting.

I can't answer your question about labs and telecine as I don't know where you are. Check www.onsuper8.org for resources in your area.

The Canon 518 Autozoom is a good starter cmaera.
Rick
  • 0

#3 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1582 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:12 PM

with 18 vs 24 because 18fps is transferred to video at 20 fps so there is a speed change.



Any Rank or Thompson telecine with a digital servo (metaspeed, etc.) can transfer 18fps at 18fps to 29.97 or 25 frame SD video.

Super8 rocks, enjoy.

-Rob-
  • 0

#4 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:17 PM

Any Rank or Thompson telecine with a digital servo (metaspeed, etc.) can transfer 18fps at 18fps to 29.97 or 25 frame SD video.

Super8 rocks, enjoy.

-Rob-


Rob
What's the conversion rate exactly? 20 fps translates to 30 easily: every third frame is made up of a field of the two adjacent frames. When transferring 24fps to video it occurs every 4th frame. what is the relationship between the film frames and video frames if the film runs at 18 fps.
Rick
  • 0

#5 Steven D. Troxell

Steven D. Troxell

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Director

Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:48 PM

Thanks for the info guys! I'm gonna pick up a canon 814 or 1014 sooner or later.Any good websites out there that hosts super films?I'd like to see some more.
  • 0

#6 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1582 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 16 April 2007 - 11:04 PM

Rob
What's the conversion rate exactly? 20 fps translates to 30 easily: every third frame is made up of a field of the two adjacent frames. When transferring 24fps to video it occurs every 4th frame. what is the relationship between the film frames and video frames if the film runs at 18 fps.
Rick



I just looked at the metaspeed control panel on my Rank #1 and it has 17.946 fps (18 -0.1% ?) amongst others I have punched in like 2fps and 12fps. I have a client in NYC who had some films shot at 5 fps and we transfered them to 29.97 video at 5fps.

Contrary to what may be popular belief there is no cadence adjustment on any telecine I know of and I have experience with all types of Flying spot and Ccd machines. The framestore in the telecine accepts the framerate from the digital servo and fits the framerate selected to the desired output framerate.

I will have to ask one of the engineers I know if there is a better explanation of how the framestore on various Telecine systems handle off framerate cadence, like 5fps or 18fps. I generally figure that for the $600k to $2M that a new telecine costs some smart folks figured this out right,

The 5fps (4.993 fps) transfer looks great, no stuttering or interlace issues just clean video.

-Rob-
  • 0

#7 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 16 April 2007 - 11:42 PM

I just looked at the metaspeed control panel on my Rank #1 and it has 17.946 fps (18 -0.1% ?) amongst others I have punched in like 2fps and 12fps. I have a client in NYC who had some films shot at 5 fps and we transfered them to 29.97 video at 5fps.

Contrary to what may be popular belief there is no cadence adjustment on any telecine I know of and I have experience with all types of Flying spot and Ccd machines. The framestore in the telecine accepts the framerate from the digital servo and fits the framerate selected to the desired output framerate.

I will have to ask one of the engineers I know if there is a better explanation of how the framestore on various Telecine systems handle off framerate cadence, like 5fps or 18fps. I generally figure that for the $600k to $2M that a new telecine costs some smart folks figured this out right,

The 5fps (4.993 fps) transfer looks great, no stuttering or interlace issues just clean video.

-Rob-


Interesting. Thanks. My experience is restricted to old-school film-chain telecine so I am clearly a little behind the curve. Interestingly, I once had a project with 9fps footage transferred at 9fps (might have been ramped to 10) and it looked amazing.
Rick
  • 0

#8 Terry Mester

Terry Mester
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts
  • Other
  • Welland, Ontario, Canada

Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:54 PM

So I'm pretty much done with video after seeing the geatness of super 8. I have a few questions I know I could search the forums but fresh answers are always nice.


Hi Steven, the HTTP Links below will help you. Robert knows a lot more about Telecine machines than me, but if programming a conversion ratio were possible, I've offered such for 20 & 18 f/s in the Telecine Forum under the Thread entitled "Converting 20 Frames/Second to Video". I don't know if individual machines can be programmed.

INFO FOR SUPER8 NEWBIES
You can find useful info on Super8mm by clicking the Threads linked below. If you would like to record Sound with your filming, log onto the Website www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo which provides info on recording synchronous Sound. Good luck to you.

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=20597
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=20645
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=20939
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=20634
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=21857
  • 0


Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

CineLab

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Opal

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Glidecam

Gamma Ray Digital Inc