Jump to content


Photo

F900R


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Frank Barrera

Frank Barrera
  • Sustaining Members
  • 464 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:12 AM

When using the Zeiss Digi Primes with the F900R has anyone found the cooler running temperature to help mitigate back focus issues?

thanks
  • 0

#2 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:18 PM

When using the Zeiss Digi Primes with the F900R has anyone found the cooler running temperature to help mitigate back focus issues?

thanks


Hi,

Probably will. Thermal expansion due to temperature increase would throw off back focus

Stephen.
  • 0

#3 Eric Steelberg ASC

Eric Steelberg ASC
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 538 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:57 PM

Yes, I found it did reduce the amount of back focusing required.
  • 0

#4 Frank Barrera

Frank Barrera
  • Sustaining Members
  • 464 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 April 2007 - 03:43 PM

thanks stephen.

Yes, I found it did reduce the amount of back focusing required.

Eric, I'm in prep on a feature and we normally shoot with a single zoom. our protocol lands somewhere between "run and gun" and "taking the proper amount of time for the shot". We feel very comfortable with the zoom system. but now we are getting almost the same quote on a set of Zeiss Digi Primes and so we are tempted to go with that if only because we've never done it before.

I assume you used the primes on a feature and if so

A- did anyone ever wait on camera because of BF issues?
B- did you ever suddenly think of a shot (be it "B Roll" or cut away) but didn't take it because you couldn't simply reframe with a zoom?

The second question is a product of the fact that often i find beautiful images at the head or tail of a shot that are not planned or while we are setting up or waiting for sound or something and they would be almost impossible to execute with out a zoom.

I am leaning towards the primes but as i have very little prime experience i just want to go into it with realistic expectations as we have a crazy 18 day schedule (again).

btw this will be straight to DVD if that matters.

thanks
  • 0

#5 Eric Steelberg ASC

Eric Steelberg ASC
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 538 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 April 2007 - 04:12 PM

Hey Frank,
I dont think it matters if straight to dvd, especially since these days most things on HD will end up on some flavor of HD DVD eventually.

Honestly, I've carried the primes and never used them. There are HD zooms so good that unless a minor amount of breathing bothers you, and only then with large racks, I see little use for the primes...in the kind of shooting I do. Sure they are a bit sharper, but as far as I can see the added sharpness can only be seen on an MTF bench and not a scene with a moving camera, cuts, wides, closeups, etc.

I also found that the couple times I did put up a prime I had to use the sharpmax to re-backfocus which always took an extra minute. In my experience directors love being able to 'find' that right size quickly and a zoom gives them that opportunity. For me, if I'm going Zeiss, I'd carry the two digizooms and nothing else...if you can afford it. Actually even if not Zeiss I'd still do that, but maybe use the big Fujinon as a single lens.

So to answer your questions, yes I have waited on camera for BF, but it's only abot twice as long as switching a film lens so I don'd consider it a measurable wait unless you do a TON of lens changes during the day, then it adds up. But if that's the case use a zoom and save that extra time to tweak lighting.

And yes, I have seem shots I could 'grab' with a zoom but didn't or missed it due to having a prime on. With run and gun a zoom is the only way to go.

On 'Quinceanera' I had 1 lens for the entire movie because it was going to be a fast down and dirty shoot.. That's it. Whole film on 1 zoom. And it did pretty well and looked great when filmed out.


The question I have for you...if you are comfortable with a zoom and got this job off of work you've shot with zooms, why are you trying something new? If you can afford to bring the primes in addition for use in handheld, steadicam, or tight places, then do it. Other wise stick to what you know will work for you.

Good luck!

Oh and by the way kudos on 'El Viaje' in AC the award. Can't wait to see it.
  • 0

#6 Frank Barrera

Frank Barrera
  • Sustaining Members
  • 464 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:29 PM

The question I have for you...if you are comfortable with a zoom and got this job off of work you've shot with zooms, why are you trying something new?

It comes down to the director and I not wanting to become complacent and/or lazy in our filmmaking. we have worked together for several years to develop a style that works. but it really has grown out of a reaction to our low budgets and short schedules ie: hand held with a single zoom lens for the whole show. of course this next one will also be a low budget with a short schedule but we're talking about challenging ourselves and exploring the "prime technique". we are interested in just picking two or three primes that we would stick with all the time. maybe even just one. this would be a stricture for sure but it would certainly open us up to creating shots that we wouldn't normally achieve with the ease of a zoom.

my biggest issue with this is that a "normal" field of view is around 40 degrees (ie: in 35MM it would be about a 35MM) and that would be 12MM in the 2/3" format. the depth of field of a 12MM is way more than either myself or the director can stomach in HD. we are usually around a 50 to 70MM in HD for the dof we like.

it almost seems like one would need to be shooting either 35MM or 65MM to go for a single prime technique. mmm...

we will test the primes for sure.

Oh and by the way kudos on 'El Viaje' in AC the award. Can't wait to see it.

thanks. i will let all know when and where it will screen. the director is trying to sell it to someone. to whom? i have no idea. who wants to buy a short anyway?
  • 0

#7 Matt Workman

Matt Workman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • NYC

Posted 20 April 2007 - 02:14 PM

All great advice so far.

I will add ( and you probably know this already but... ) on the Cine-Alta you can have different lens profiles for each Digi-Prime. I just worked with a F900 from Abel Cine Tech where the Engineer setup a different file for each Zeiss Digi-Prime.

On set the cadence of: change lens, change filter, backfocus, change lens profile, was a little longer than I liked. We only had one AC, so with a 2ND and after the first week of a feature you might be flying.

In my humbliest opinion on Prime Versus Zoom, I think that in HD the extra speed of the Digi Primes T1.6 and whatnot can eek out the slightest amount of DOF compared to the T1.9 zoom. But in reality getting the precise ND filter to stay wide open is quite a chore and not meant for run and gun stuff. Also the DP 5mm is a nice lens.

Also if you are trying not to get into positive Gain levels having the extra 1/3 to 1/2 a stop can be helpful in many ways. Lighting and Post work. A plus for run and gun night shooting.

I would usually prefer the option depending on shots like Eric was saying. We had some 16' ladderpod shots where I wish we could have just nudged the zoom instead of waiting 5 minutes for a lens change. :unsure:

What kind of monitor are you using with the F900R? Who are you guys renting from?

Have a good shoot.

Cheers,

Matt :ph34r:
  • 0

#8 Frank Barrera

Frank Barrera
  • Sustaining Members
  • 464 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 20 April 2007 - 08:50 PM

Matt

yes the changing of lenses and their files does seem like it would take a good deal of time. that's why we would attempt to leave lenses on for long periods at a time.

we are not certain of where we will be renting from as we are still negotiating with a few houses. but we plan on using the SonyBVM-D14H5U 14" HD monitor. It's the best compromise between size, accuracy and price. The 20" is great but it's just too freakin big for location work and of course an 8" or 9" is really only appropraite for focus and compostion.

thanks for your thoughts
  • 0

#9 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:21 PM

checking BF is a -must- when temperatures change.

there are several very good 2/3 zooms, i would recommend to check them out.
we are using the angenieux f2 5.3-53 and the angenieux f2.2 7.8-208 and are very satisfied with the two, the 7.8-208 however breathes. in fact we mostly use the digiprimes only when we need that additional 0.3-0.5 stops.
  • 0


CineLab

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Opal

Visual Products

Tai Audio

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

CineTape

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Opal

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Paralinx LLC