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Suitable 16mm camera for student.


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#1 Stephen Smith

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:51 AM

HI
I was wondering if anyone could help me decide on a 16mm camera to buy.

I have been using a bolex 16mm reflex for a while now, belonging to my university, I'm getting a bit bored of having to use a camera that's kept in such poor maintenence. My other problem with it is only being able to load 100ft at a time. Ideally i'm looking for something that can have a 400ft magazine added and something i could get converted to super16 without having to send it out of the country. I've been looking at the arri st, although i've read like the bolex this will be too loud for any sync sound, the packages seem to have the advantage of not being clockwork. What sort of price am i going to be looking at for a 16mm camera with 400ft magazine and good lenses? My budget at the moment is about £1500 (i'm in the UK), I've seen arri st packages for around £1195, though i have no idea if this is the right sort of price to be paying for them. If anyone has any suggestions i'd be most grateful.
thanks.
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#2 Thanasis Diamantopoulos

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 05:39 AM

HI
I was wondering if anyone could help me decide on a 16mm camera to buy.

I have been using a bolex 16mm reflex for a while now, belonging to my university, I'm getting a bit bored of having to use a camera that's kept in such poor maintenence. My other problem with it is only being able to load 100ft at a time. Ideally i'm looking for something that can have a 400ft magazine added and something i could get converted to super16 without having to send it out of the country. I've been looking at the arri st, although i've read like the bolex this will be too loud for any sync sound, the packages seem to have the advantage of not being clockwork. What sort of price am i going to be looking at for a 16mm camera with 400ft magazine and good lenses? My budget at the moment is about £1500 (i'm in the UK), I've seen arri st packages for around £1195, though i have no idea if this is the right sort of price to be paying for them. If anyone has any suggestions i'd be most grateful.
thanks.

Hi
For that money you can try or an arri bl 16 or an eclair npr you can find alot on ebay they are also sync sound and have 400 ft mags. NPR can be converted to S 16 easyer that Bl For the both of them are very cheap lenses and accesories.
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#3 Stephen Smith

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 06:10 AM

Hi
For that money you can try or an arri bl 16 or an eclair npr you can find alot on ebay they are also sync sound and have 400 ft mags. NPR can be converted to S 16 easyer that Bl For the both of them are very cheap lenses and accesories.

I read somewhere that the arri bl wasn't worth getting due to there not being many spare parts or people knowledgable in the repair of the cameras? I've not looked at the eclair, i'll have a look what i can find.
thanks
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:19 AM

I read somewhere that the arri bl wasn't worth getting due to there not being many spare parts or people knowledgable in the repair of the cameras? I've not looked at the eclair, i'll have a look what i can find.
thanks



Fewer and fewer places will service the Arriflex 16BL, though if you get one with a high enough serial number ARRI USA will still service it. The problem is not just finding someone to service it, it is finding someone who is qualified to service it.

There are more places to have an Arriflex 16S (St, S/B) serviced, including my shop, and the parts are more readily available for the 16S series, as ARRI made almost 20,000 of them over the camera's life-span. But it is an MOS camera. It is in a different league from the Bolex, which was never meant to be a professional production camera, as the Arriflex 16S was. Having serviced both, I can tell you the build quality and function is remarkably different between the two. The Arriflex, depending if you get an S/B with the one bayonet mount in the turret, can use professional production lenses like the Zeiss Super Speed Mk1 series, something you could never do with a Bolex.

And both the Arriflex 16BL and the Arriflex 16S are not designed to be converted to Super 16.

Don't really know the Eclair camera line, maybe someone else on this forum can help you with them.

Good luck,
-Tim
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#5 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 03:42 PM

HI
... My other problem with it is only being able to load 100ft at a time. Ideally i'm looking for something that can have a 400ft magazine added and something i could get converted to super16 without having to send it out of the country. I've been looking at the arri st, although i've read like the bolex this will be too loud for any sync sound, the packages seem to have the advantage of not being clockwork. What sort of price am i going to be looking at for a 16mm camera with 400ft magazine and good lenses? My budget at the moment is about £1500 (i'm in the UK), I've seen arri st packages for around £1195, though i have no idea if this is the right sort of price to be paying for them. If anyone has any suggestions i'd be most grateful.
thanks.


I think, you need draw attention on Kinor-16 SX-2M ,russian professional cine cameras.
Forums have many information about this camera.
This camera have 400 ft and 100 ft film magazines, can have crystal sync speed motor, can be convert on Arri PL lens mount and Super 16 film gate, can have prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm, zoom lenses
7.5-75 mm, 10-100 mm, 12-120 mm
Franklys peaking, Super 16 camera for 1500 pound sterling can be a some dream, but, need find.
If you will have of additional questions, can ask me.
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#6 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 03:58 PM

You can find Bolex's with 400' mags, and mod'ing to S16 can be done at home on the Bolex if you have the patience and a steady hand.

Unless you plan on shooting some sync, why not just stick to the Bolex? It's inexpensive and a great camera.
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#7 Krystian Ramlogan

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:57 PM

I've got an Eclair NPR and it's a very decent camera. Rugged, quiet (at least mine is), solid and reliable. The only thing is of course its a tad heavy (about 22lbs), and uncomfortable to handhold for very long.

You can find mags, accessories and lenses easily. Mine has an Arri Bayonette mount and a c-mount. C-mount lenses are cheap and easy to find. If you get a well kept and serviced one you will be very happy.

I've recently compared some film I shot on an SR to my NPR and no one could really tell the difference; both used an angenieux zoom 12-120 lens and we shot under controlled lighting. Of course, the SR is way easier to use and has more "features" but for the Price, the Eclair is Hard to Beat!!

(I've also shot with the CP-16R, and a Bolex)

Les Bosher is an acknowledged expert in your part of the world:

http://www.lesbosher.co.uk/default.htm

Take your time and find a good deal. Best of luck,

K.
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#8 Stephen Smith

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:14 AM

I've got an Eclair NPR and it's a very decent camera. Rugged, quiet (at least mine is), solid and reliable. The only thing is of course its a tad heavy (about 22lbs), and uncomfortable to handhold for very long.

You can find mags, accessories and lenses easily. Mine has an Arri Bayonette mount and a c-mount. C-mount lenses are cheap and easy to find. If you get a well kept and serviced one you will be very happy.

I've recently compared some film I shot on an SR to my NPR and no one could really tell the difference; both used an angenieux zoom 12-120 lens and we shot under controlled lighting. Of course, the SR is way easier to use and has more "features" but for the Price, the Eclair is Hard to Beat!!

(I've also shot with the CP-16R, and a Bolex)

Les Bosher is an acknowledged expert in your part of the world:

http://www.lesbosher.co.uk/default.htm

Take your time and find a good deal. Best of luck,

K.


Have looked alot, the eclair seems to be the best route to go down, seeing as i can shoot sync sound and get it converted to super 16 when i get the cash. I've located one on ebay, its in canada but the seller will ship to uk, its a proper shop rather than some random person so i think it can be trusted. The camera doesn't come with any sort of battery charger. Am i likely to find a battery charger for the camera easily? at what price and are new batteries available if the ones in it are knackered? Also it has a Angenieux 12-120 CAMEFLEX mount lens, will thios lens produce good results? or is it worth using a C mount to nikon adaptor or something?
Thanks for the help.
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#9 Krystian Ramlogan

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 03:54 AM

Hi.

The Eclair is really a nice camera once you understand its eccentricities: slightly heavy and a bit unwieldy to hand-hold.

Its rock steady, smooth, quiet (if its well serviced), and there are a good range of accessories and upgrades you can buy as your needs (and wallet) grow.

To answer your specific questions:
1. chargers and batteries are easy to find/purchase. you can check www.bhphotovideo.com.
2. you can check www.visualproducts.com for examples of well fit camera packages.
3. the Angenieux 12-120 is a standard lens. the CAMEFLEX mount was the standard mount; I would suggest you change to a bayonette (cheaper and you can keep the c mount) or pl mount (more expensive and I think you lose the c mount) when/if you can.
4. c mount lenses are good and provide lots of options.
5. upgrading to s16 is expensive (i'm trying to do that myself). try for necessary upgrades 1st - lens mount, lenses, motor (allows speed ramps/changes), follow focus, filters, matte box, etc.

Any other questions just ask,

K.
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#10 Nate Downes

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:12 AM

Another option I've found for that price is the Frezzolini.
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