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Warming Filters


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#1 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:17 PM

Hi there,
I will be shooting a short film in the Yorkshire countryside in late may. It will be a getting of age film in which a 7 year old girl will be the protagonist.
To stay true to the story I imagened a warm and subtle overall look to the film.
There will be lots of exterior shots, and i was thinking of using a #1 coral filter in combination with a polarizer.
I am not to experienced with the usage of filters, so my question would be if a coral filter is a good filter to warm up a scene, and would it work in combination with a polarizer??
Any help on that topic is highly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Rob
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:07 PM

What format are you shooting in? What format will you be showing it in?
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#3 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:25 PM

What format are you shooting in? What format will you be showing it in?


I will be shooting on Super 16. It won't go to print. Will go to digital.
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#4 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:25 PM

so my question would be if a coral filter is a good filter to warm up a scene, and would it work in combination with a polarizer??



Is it a good filter to warm up a scene? I don't know, you tell me! Try it out and see if it works with your project. There's nothing wrong with shooting it correctly and warming in post though, you might wanna consider it for safety sake.

And so long as you're aware that you'll probably have to open up about 2 stops for the polarizer, I think it's be an interesting look with the two combined. But again, you might just wanna leave the coral filter off and shoot with the polarizer to preserve the full color range for correcting in post.
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#5 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 01:31 PM

I will be using 250 D for exteriors, and 500 T for interiors.

Is it a good filter to warm up a scene? I don't know, you tell me! Try it out and see if it works with your project. There's nothing wrong with shooting it correctly and warming in post though, you might wanna consider it for safety sake.

And so long as you're aware that you'll probably have to open up about 2 stops for the polarizer, I think it's be an interesting look with the two combined. But again, you might just wanna leave the coral filter off and shoot with the polarizer to preserve the full color range for correcting in post.


I was thinking of leaving the coral of. But since I am still in film school i would like to experiment a bit. Don't know when I will be shooting on film again, so I would like to be in controll of the look and don't leave it to the colorist.
Thanks a lot,
Rob
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:04 PM

I got warm dailies for "Akeelah and the Bee", "Astronaut Farmer" and "Solstice" by using a light blue filter on the camera for the grey scales, then pulled it for the scenes - and got back dailies that looked like I had used a 1/2 Coral or 81EF.

If the Coral was the only filter, I might be inclined to use it, but I hate stacking glass if I don't have to -- if there were any chance of double-reflection problems from the Pola being stacked with the Coral, or if you also needed another filter on occasion, like diffusion, plus the Pola, I'd probably drop the Coral.

Now odder colors like Chocolate or Sepia or Tobacco or Antique Suede, I may be more tempted to use the filter because it can be harder to describe the shade to a colorist for dailies.
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#7 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:17 PM

I got warm dailies for "Akeelah and the Bee", "Astronaut Farmer" and "Solstice" by using a light blue filter on the camera for the grey scales, then pulled it for the scenes - and got back dailies that looked like I had used a 1/2 Coral or 81EF.

If the Coral was the only filter, I might be inclined to use it, but I hate stacking glass if I don't have to -- if there were any chance of double-reflection problems from the Pola being stacked with the Coral, or if you also needed another filter on occasion, like diffusion, plus the Pola, I'd probably drop the Coral.

Now odder colors like Chocolate or Sepia or Tobacco or Antique Suede, I may be more tempted to use the filter because it can be harder to describe the shade to a colorist for dailies.


So you would recommend using a light blue over the lense when shooting the grey scale. Does it matter witch lab I give it to? Should I let the lab know what I did and tell them to correct it for the blue filter, or shouldn't I say anything and just let them go ahead and correct it by themself?
I am pretty sure I won't use any diffusion. Might have to throw a ND in on occasion though. So you would recommend not to stack to many filters because of reflections and flare?
Thanks a lot for your advice.
Rob
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#8 Tim Fleming

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:17 PM

Chocolate gives a beautiful warmth, I find chocolate combined with straw or a light yellow wirks nicely also. Not sure about combining warm with Pola though !!!!

Tim Fleming
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I got warm dailies for "Akeelah and the Bee", "Astronaut Farmer" and "Solstice" by using a light blue filter on the camera for the grey scales, then pulled it for the scenes - and got back dailies that looked like I had used a 1/2 Coral or 81EF.

If the Coral was the only filter, I might be inclined to use it, but I hate stacking glass if I don't have to -- if there were any chance of double-reflection problems from the Pola being stacked with the Coral, or if you also needed another filter on occasion, like diffusion, plus the Pola, I'd probably drop the Coral.

Now odder colors like Chocolate or Sepia or Tobacco or Antique Suede, I may be more tempted to use the filter because it can be harder to describe the shade to a colorist for dailies.


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#9 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:27 PM

The grey scale is not really a lab issue (unless you are making a workprint) -- it doesn't have anything to do with processing -- it's a way of communicating to the colorist if you won't be there to supervise. If the grey scale is shot with a light blue filter, then when it comes up, the colorist will balance the signal so that the grey looks grey -- but then the following scene without the blue filter looks warm as a result.

So usually I follow-up the grey scale with a sign that says "COLOR: LIGHT WARM GOLDEN TONE" or something to that effect, as a double-reminder that the scene is supposed to look warm.

It works for making a workprint too, in terms of telling the timer to time the roll for the greyscale.

Now none of this is necessarily if you will be there at the telecine session.

Usually I use an 82B filter I think, sort of the blue equivalent of an 81EF.
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#10 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:41 PM

The grey scale is not really a lab issue (unless you are making a workprint) -- it doesn't have anything to do with processing -- it's a way of communicating to the colorist if you won't be there to supervise. If the gey scale is shot with a light blue filter, then when it comes up, the colorist will balance the signal so that the grey looks grey -- but then the following scene without the blue filter looks warm as a result.

So usually I follow-up the grey scale with a sign that says "COLOR: LIGHT WARM GOLDEN TONE" or something to that effect, as a double-reminder that the scene is supposed to look warm.

It works for making a workprint too, in terms of telling the timer to time the roll for the greyscale.

Now none of this is necessarily if you will be there at the telecine session.

Usually I use an 82B filter I think, sort of the blue equivalent of an 81EF.


I will be there for the telecine session. My only concern is that I would like to get as close to the look I want without using the help of the colorist to much. Since I am still learning I would like to experiment a bit. My prof adviced me to just shoot everything clear and than do the rest in post. I don't really agree with him. I think it should be the job of the photographer to achive his own look without to much grading.
i might just go ahead and try the coral. maybe just a light one, and if I have to warm it up more, do it in post.
Again,
Thank you very much for your help.
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#11 Tim Fleming

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 03:01 PM

Enjoy Robert, follow your inclination and be brave. could be the motto of cinematographers through time.

Tim Fleming
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#12 Robert Gardner

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 03:09 PM

Enjoy Robert, follow your inclination and be brave. could be the motto of cinematographers through time.

Tim Fleming
Cinematographer
Europe.


Cheers, will do!
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#13 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 05:08 PM

Why not shoot some stills with that filter combination?
I agree with Tim that you should follow your inclination.
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#14 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 05:38 PM

If you are going to use the Coral filters, in order to really know the color they create, then you should do the opposite of what I said and shoot the grey scale with no Coral filter so the colorist can balance for that, so when the filtered shot comes up after that, you know exactly what shade and strength that filter is. So at least for future shoots, you can say "well, that Coral #1 was too heavy afterall."

Because if the first thing that comes up in the telecine session is a Coral-filtered shot, the colorist is immediately going to be fiddling with it, asking you if this was the way it was supposed to look -- you'll have no neutral frame of reference.
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#15 Tony Brown

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 02:48 PM

so I would like to be in controll of the look and don't leave it to the colorist.


LOL

So be there when they grade. WHATEVER you put on the front and whether you shoot grey scales or not you will need to control the TK. Its 40% of what you do.... if you're not there it becomes 90%. I'd imagine at your stage you have no working relationship with Colourists that know your work and you trust to do a good job. If thats the case they will probably (even in innocence) slaughter your work.

Be there.
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#16 Bruno Alzaga

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:38 PM

LOL

So be there when they grade. WHATEVER you put on the front and whether you shoot grey scales or not you will need to control the TK. Its 40% of what you do.... if you're not there it becomes 90%. I'd imagine at your stage you have no working relationship with Colourists that know your work and you trust to do a good job. If thats the case they will probably (even in innocence) slaughter your work.

Be there.


Be brave. If you want a warm look you know what to do, so do it. But there are different ways to do it. The DoP wich i work always tell me that it is beter to have all rhe colours, so i agree with those who say donĀ“t use the coral, and warm it up in post, where you can warm it up at your willThe pola is a good idea to saturate colours a litlle bit, and i will correct with 1 1/3.
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#17 Robert Gardner

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 08:14 AM

If you are going to use the Coral filters, in order to really know the color they create, then you should do the opposite of what I said and shoot the grey scale with no Coral filter so the colorist can balance for that, so when the filtered shot comes up after that, you know exactly what shade and strength that filter is. So at least for future shoots, you can say "well, that Coral #1 was too heavy afterall."

Because if the first thing that comes up in the telecine session is a Coral-filtered shot, the colorist is immediately going to be fiddling with it, asking you if this was the way it was supposed to look -- you'll have no neutral frame of reference.


Many thanks for all your advice,
There would only be one last thing to ask.
When shooting the grey scale, should I also take the polarizer of with the coral?
As I understand it, I should always shoot the grey scale clear!?!
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