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200T and 500T on Nizos


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#1 Mat Newman

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 10:19 AM

Can anyone say definitively if the Nizo Professional automatically reads the correct ASA on Kodak's 200 and 500T stocks? I'm shooting some tests using the automatic light meter and some second guessing, so I'm about to find out anyway -- but if anyone out there knows for sure, I'd like to know.

Because if the camera doesn't read the correct ASA, then what does it think it's reading?

Mat
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#2 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 01:35 PM

The 200T will be read as 100ASA, and so will the 500T. Not a big deal with the 200, but kind of with the 500T. If your using an external meter, the Nizo looses about a half stop with the beam splitter... so remember to compensate.
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#3 Mat Newman

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 03:55 PM

That's good to know, thanks. And I didn't know that about the beam splitter either... I'm fishing around now for a light meter.

Are there any cameras which do read 500 ASA accurately?
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#4 Dan Goldberg

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 04:07 PM

Are there any cameras which do read 500 ASA accurately?

I'm pretty sure that when you use 500 ASA film, your camera's meter should be at 400 ASA (overexposing by a 3rd of a stop) and should work just fine. As long as you aren't shooting in too bright of a space, 500 ASA film should work just fine.

Hope that helps!

Dan Goldberg..

Edited by Dan Goldberg, 22 April 2007 - 04:07 PM.

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#5 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:47 PM

The 200T will be read as 100ASA, and so will the 500T.


Are you sure Anthony? Have you confirmed this? Since the Nizo's have a "wedge" cartridge detector, theoretically it can read any speed and I have always assumed it was programmed to read much higher than 100 - at least 400.

Dan, it's easy to check. Load a cart that you know the camera will read: 40 or 160 were two "old standards" and pretty well all cameras can read them (which is what makes me suspicious about Anthony's claim). Check the reading with the internal meter. Now load a cart of 200 (and then 500). You know where they should be, compared to your test cart, so you can calculate how accurate (or not) the reading is. Make sure you take your readings off the same scenario to keep that part of the test consistent.
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#6 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 11:05 PM

Dan, it's easy to check.


Oops. Too late to edit. I meant to say "Mat, it's easy to check...".
I think Dan's information is correct.
Rick
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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 12:53 AM

Oops. Too late to edit. I meant to say "Mat, it's easy to check...".
I think Dan's information is correct.
Rick


If you become a sustaining member you get some kind of an extended window of time to re-edit posts, I don't know what it is, but it's probably 24 hours. I can't tell you how many typos I've fixed with that extra window of time. :blink:
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#8 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 12:58 AM

The Nizo 481-Pro models read a range of speeds with a wedge, but max out at 160ASA tungston. And with the way 200T is not notched, any camera that reads 160T will read it as 100ASA (auto disabled filter). Or if you cut a filter notch and disable filter, you'll be exposing as 160 (1/3rd over). 500T has no choice but to be read the same way... but overexposes 2 1/3rds. I'm not certain, but I think newer sound models like the 6080 can read uo to 640ASA.

The exposure time @ 24fps is 1/57, 18fps 1/43

Edited by Anthony Schilling, 23 April 2007 - 01:01 AM.

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#9 Mat Newman

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 04:56 PM

The Nizo 481-Pro models read a range of speeds with a wedge, but max out at 160ASA tungston. And with the way 200T is not notched, any camera that reads 160T will read it as 100ASA (auto disabled filter). Or if you cut a filter notch and disable filter, you'll be exposing as 160 (1/3rd over). 500T has no choice but to be read the same way... but overexposes 2 1/3rds. I'm not certain, but I think newer sound models like the 6080 can read uo to 640ASA.

The exposure time @ 24fps is 1/57, 18fps 1/43


:blink: That's a lot of notches! Good info, I'll try it and see what happens (cutting the filter notch, that is).

Also, I found this link - seems like a very comprehensive list.

http://www.super8cam...om/cameras.html
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#10 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 08:25 AM

The Nizo 481-Pro models read a range of speeds with a wedge, but max out at 160ASA tungston. And with the way 200T is not notched, any camera that reads 160T will read it as 100ASA (auto disabled filter). Or if you cut a filter notch and disable filter, you'll be exposing as 160 (1/3rd over). 500T has no choice but to be read the same way... but overexposes 2 1/3rds. I'm not certain, but I think newer sound models like the 6080 can read uo to 640ASA.

The exposure time @ 24fps is 1/57, 18fps 1/43


Hi
Thanks for the exposure time, what shutter angle is it ?
I am about to shoot 200t and 500T using my Nizo Professional and I am concerned
reading all of these posted notes! I have shot 64T, Plus-X and Tri-X with perfect results.
Are you sure about the limitation of the sensibility wedge ? I am quite sure it reads up to 400ASA.
Jean
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#11 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 01:13 AM

An update since this post: It's been realized that the Nizo 481-801/Pro do not default to 100ASA with filter pin is pushed in. If you set the filter knob on tungston, it will be read as 160ASA. The filter itself will still be disabled by lack of a notch on 200/500T, so you will have to cut a notch or use an external filter in daylight. 160ASA is the max reading on those models, but you can compensate manually (500T will be - 1 &2/3rds) . With 200T, just set it on tungston for the 160 rating and go with the 1/3 over... use an external 85B and TTL will compensate. Keep in mind, if the filter switch is set to daylight you will be rating at 100ASA.

The Nizo will read all ASA up to 160, so 64T, Plus X fall in there. Tri X is 200D/160T, you would be 1/3rd over in daylight but not that big of deal.

Edited by Anthony Schilling, 01 June 2007 - 01:16 AM.

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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 05:49 AM

When shooting outdoors, and assuming that when you flip to the sun filter setting that the 85 filter is actually in place, that means 200 ASA film is actually 125 ASA, and 500 ASA film is actually 320 ASA.

320 ASA rating can easily be overexposed one stop, meaning 500 ASA film can rated at 160 ASA if one is shooting outdoor with an 85 filter. So I'm not so sure there is really a problem here. Even a stop and half over-exposure when shooting outdoors is probably acceptable especially since it gets the f-stop away from the ultra high end of the scale (as in a higher number than f-16) which I believe is usually a good thing.

If one is shooting indoors, for the most part you are going to be wide open for probably 90% of anything you would ever shoot. If one is shooting indoors in either available light or soft light one could probably play it safe and simply lock off the meter at say F 2.0 instead of completely wide open since sometimes some cameras will soften up when the f-stop is completely wide open. If one has access to some stronger but not ultra harsh lighting, than another default setting of around an f2.0 to F 2.8 split range will probably work remarkably well most of the time. If you do not have a polaroid set-up like the one that I have mentioned on my super-8mm.net website, http://www.super-8mm.net/8.htm, then do a test before you shoot something that really matters.

I had such wonderful results on a shoot I did recently specifically because I shot test polaroids just prior to shooting each scene, but if you do not have the proper polaroid set-up than I think the 200T and the 500T will make ones life easier much more often versus when it might be a problem.
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#13 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 12:26 PM

200/500T carts don't have filter notches, so the internal 85 filter can not be used. Unless you cut a notch, then the filter can be used on Sun setting, but by switching the knob to Sun... any cart rated 160 or over will now be read as 100SA. Fine with 200T, a bit much with 500T. Personally, a full stop over is the most I would consider.
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#14 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 09:18 PM

200/500T carts don't have filter notches, so the internal 85 filter can not be used. Unless you cut a notch, then the filter can be used on Sun setting, but by switching the knob to Sun... any cart rated 160 or over will now be read as 100SA. Fine with 200T, a bit much with 500T. Personally, a full stop over is the most I would consider.


I did a shot outdoors in the middle of the day and I used 200T the internal filter and it had to have worked because the color reproduction looked perfect.
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#15 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:59 PM

I did a shot outdoors in the middle of the day and I used 200T the internal filter and it had to have worked because the color reproduction looked perfect

It was just corrected on the transfer. The first 200T I shot when it came out with my 814XLS looked ok too. I was unaware that my filter was disabled untill some time later.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 06:43 AM

It was just corrected on the transfer. The first 200T I shot when it came out with my 814XLS looked ok too. I was unaware that my filter was disabled untill some time later.


Then wouldn't that make the film 200D?
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#17 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:37 AM

Then wouldn't that make the film 200D?

It's still 200ASA. with no filter, and the 814 will expose as 100ASA. so a stop over.
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 01:23 PM

If Tungsten balanced reversal stock is very difficult to color correct if one is shooting outdoors with no 85 filter, but if tungsten balanced negative stock is completely correctable when shooting outdoors without an 85 filter, than couldn't 200T and 500T also be considered a 200D and 500D stock as well?
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#19 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:08 PM

Not really. Although the results were ok, they were still on the colder side. The difference is apparent when you use an 85B.
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#20 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:19 PM

Not really. Although the results were ok, they were still on the colder side. The difference is apparent when you use an 85B.


The 200T Footage that Spectra transferred looked perfect, that's why I assumed the 85 filter was in. All the colors were represented, green grass, blue sky, transparent white flowing gown, a woman wearing the the transparent white gown running in slow motion, all the colors came out exactly as they should.
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