Jump to content


Photo

Fire effect


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Bruno Alzaga

Bruno Alzaga
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montevideo, Uruguay

Posted 24 April 2007 - 08:49 AM

I have just saw 300, and in the scenes at night fire is very used. In some shots you can´t see the fire but the flames lighting the actor. So i want to know who to do this effect.

Thanks
  • 0

#2 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 24 April 2007 - 02:27 PM

I have just saw 300, and in the scenes at night fire is very used. In some shots you can´t see the fire but the flames lighting the actor. So i want to know who to do this effect.


Probably done with a gelled light connected to a flicker box.

Search the forums to find out ALL the other techniques previously discussed.
  • 0

#3 Dan Goldberg

Dan Goldberg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Student
  • London, Ontario, Canada

Posted 24 April 2007 - 05:04 PM

Jonathan is probably right with the flicker box.

If you wanted to do this same effect (outdoors?) what if you had an actual fire going (keeping in mind you're in a location that a) allows it and B) is safe to do it in). Personally, I like to shoot films with as much natural light and location sets as possible. But that's just me. B)

Good luck!

Dan Goldberg..
  • 0

#4 Bruno Alzaga

Bruno Alzaga
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montevideo, Uruguay

Posted 24 April 2007 - 06:51 PM

Jonathan is probably right with the flicker box.

If you wanted to do this same effect (outdoors?) what if you had an actual fire going (keeping in mind you're in a location that a) allows it and B) is safe to do it in). Personally, I like to shoot films with as much natural light and location sets as possible. But that's just me. B)

Good luck!

Dan Goldberg..


Thanks to both of you. I´m not a native english speaker so some word are diffucult to me. A flicker box is like a dimmer?? The second question, Dan when you said "I like to shoot films with as much natural light and location sets as possible", do you mean that if you can u will use fire? If this is right, Do you have any read in your photometer?

Thanks a lot
  • 0

#5 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 25 April 2007 - 05:39 PM

Thanks to both of you. I´m not a native english speaker so some word are diffucult to me. A flicker box is like a dimmer?? The second question, Dan when you said "I like to shoot films with as much natural light and location sets as possible", do you mean that if you can u will use fire? If this is right, Do you have any read in your photometer?

Thanks a lot


http://www.magicgadg...om/mg_ol_04.htm

You can use Flame bars to light with real fire. And yes, you can use your lightmeter normally.
Posted Image

http://www.effectspe...ropaneflame.htm
  • 0

#6 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:41 PM

http://www.magicgadg...om/mg_ol_04.htm

You can use Flame bars to light with real fire. And yes, you can use your lightmeter normally.
Posted Image

http://www.effectspe...ropaneflame.htm



For some strange reason, that looks like a mighty dangerous fire efect to be doing in a driveway of a residential section. :)
  • 0

#7 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:43 PM

For some strange reason, that looks like a mighty dangerous fire efect to be doing in a driveway of a residential section. :)


:P Yeah, I agree. I pulled that pic from the web, not my own shoot!

I've illuminated faces solely by a much more "tame" rig, like a 3' pipe off a propane tank (handled by an effects person of course, not a DIY rig!).
  • 0

#8 Luke Prendergast

Luke Prendergast
  • Sustaining Members
  • 491 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Victoria Australia

Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:16 PM

Here's some foolhardiness for you. Neglected to close the right-hand front window but no damage done (thankfully; my own car). Easy effect. All we did was ...

cap001.jpg
  • 0

#9 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:24 PM

I believe at Roger Deakins' website he mentions using something like a "flame bar" for most of his fire lighting effects.

Something about not liking the look of flicker boxes and preferring to keep things natural and organic with actual sources. Which I have to agree on, sometimes shots are so OBVIOUSLY done with a flicker box that it can be distracting, to me at least.
  • 0

#10 Evan Pierre

Evan Pierre
  • Guests

Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:39 PM

I believe at Roger Deakins' website he mentions using something like a "flame bar" for most of his fire lighting effects.

Something about not liking the look of flicker boxes and preferring to keep things natural and organic with actual sources. Which I have to agree on, sometimes shots are so OBVIOUSLY done with a flicker box that it can be distracting, to me at least.


I agree that when flicker boxes are blatantly being used it can get a wee bit ditracting :lol:

Something i've seen before is the use of both. Using a real fire (such as a fire place) and then having a flicker box set up right next to it. That way you get your natural flame effect, but are also able to adjust/enhance it a bit withought being too obvious.
  • 0

#11 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:08 AM

http://www.bluesky-web.com/fire.mov
  • 0

#12 James Brown

James Brown
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 235 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Sydney, Australia

Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:51 AM

Hi,

Depending on the scenario I have always loved the look of a baby soft with half straw plugged into a flicker tricks set at random increments. Recently a Tungsten source with 1/2 85 bounced into a loose gold reflector. Just give the gold bounce a bit a wobble and looks great, very believable. But the bounce should not be on polly and just stuck loosely in a 4x4 frame so it's got some place to shimmer.

James.
  • 0

#13 Bruno Alzaga

Bruno Alzaga
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montevideo, Uruguay

Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:49 PM

http://www.bluesky-web.com/fire.mov


WALTER,

That´s seems quite real. What technique did you use to achive that result.

Thanks
  • 0

#14 Algis Kemezys

Algis Kemezys
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 85 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montreal

Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:26 PM

Flickering light can actually done by hand if you have a willing person. Best done with real leaves of bushes but artificial things can work as well. Place appropriately balanced light and flicker branches in front of it. Move the light as well if you can.
  • 0

#15 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 27 April 2007 - 12:54 AM

A search of this site will turn up more discussion of "flicker" gags like firelight and TV sets.

I've done it by hand -- literally -- by wiggling my hands and fingers in front of a small soft-ish light source. It takes some practice to get the right movements and speed, but it can be very convincing.
  • 0

#16 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 27 April 2007 - 08:14 AM

WALTER,

That´s seems quite real. What technique did you use to achive that result.

Thanks



My demo is a little flicker box I make. It creates a random flicker for a lamp up to 100 watts and can be used for the movie you see, a TV set effect (http://www.bluesky-web.com/gone.mov) or a projector (theater) visual effect. Having sat and watched any number of real fire effects on peoples faces I realize that the actual flicker effect is really minimal. In that demo I am using a 40 watt spot for a flicker and a 100 watt base light. The base light is colored more in the orange range and the flicker lamp a bit more yellow. I've gotten some pretty great footage from many folks who bought a box from me and wanted to share the result.

Over the years we've used many methods from slits in a hanging gel with a light fan, to handheld waving of gels, to turning dimmers on and off randomly, etc. I don't think there is really one best efect, but rather what works best for the shot.

That said, the key to a good flicker effect is good audio as is most good cinematography.
  • 0

#17 Dan Goldberg

Dan Goldberg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Student
  • London, Ontario, Canada

Posted 27 April 2007 - 12:00 PM

Thanks to both of you. I´m not a native english speaker so some word are diffucult to me. A flicker box is like a dimmer?? The second question, Dan when you said "I like to shoot films with as much natural light and location sets as possible", do you mean that if you can u will use fire? If this is right, Do you have any read in your photometer?

Thanks a lot


Well I've only needed fire in one of my films, and it wasn't a large fire...just a campfire. I simply just set up a campfire (Scouts knowledge :) ) and used the reflective light from it. I found the actor/actress had to sit closer to the fire in order to get a larger reflection off of their skin, but it looked really good!
  • 0


Visual Products

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Opal

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

CineLab