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super 16 krasnogorsk-3 questions


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#1 Molly Corey

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:39 AM

I just purchased a Krasnogorsk-3 which has the crystal syn motor and has been converted to super 16. It hasn't arrived yet, but i am anxious that I made a big mistake. I am a total novice and kind of jumped in a bit too early. I wish I had read all of your great posts before I bought it. Here are my concerns: I need to shoot close up maybe 3 feet and I need a wide shot, but it looks like with the super 16 convertion a wide angle vignettes. How much does it vingette? Is it so extreme that i should have just gone with the 16mm. Or is it minor enough that I can just frame it in when i edit? Now about close up. Can a close up diopter work with the 17-79 lens it comes with and how will that effect the super 16 frame? Mine doesn't come with one so does anyone know where to find one or is that something easily buyable in a local store. It says that some 35 mm slr lenses will cover the full 16mm frame. Can you recoomend any wide angle ones that will not distort the image? Any info on this would be so appreciated.
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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:43 PM

Congratulations, a K3 is a fine first camera, great to learn on. Having the motor will save your hand from winding, a big plus.

Do you know which type of lens mount you have? If it's an M42 (Pentax Screw) mount, then you'll have quite a few lens options at reasonable prices.

The Meteor lens that comes with the camera does not cover the Super 16 frame between 17-25 so you may want to look at another Russian lens, the Fisheye MC Zenitar-M 16mm f/2.8 Lens. This covers the Super 16 frame and even though it's called a fisheye, the distortion is not that great on a 16mm movie camera. The specs are at this site, so double check to see if it will focus close enough for you.

http://www.rugift.co...isheye_lens.htm

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There are some decent prime lenses to be found on eBay called Pentax Super Takumar lenses. I have a 35mm & 50mm that are sharp, fast and clean (the 50mm is F1.4). These will also cover the Super 16 frame.

If you're looking for a distortion free lens, you'll probably want to find a 20mm M42 lens like this one...MC Mir 47M 2.5/20 Lens. Never used it myself but the specs match what you're looking for.

MC Mir 47M 2.5/20 Lens
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#3 Molly Corey

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 02:27 PM

wow that was a wealth of info. I am eternally grateful. I guess I have to get a nice lens for it. Your suggestions are great. Another question I had was when framing through the eyepiece how do you know how to position your camera to get what you want in there with the new super16 format. Is there a slight left or right shift that can compensate? I will be shooting in some situations where symetry is key to the shot, so I wonder how I can figure that out.
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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 03:33 PM

wow that was a wealth of info. I am eternally grateful. I guess I have to get a nice lens for it. Your suggestions are great. Another question I had was when framing through the eyepiece how do you know how to position your camera to get what you want in there with the new super16 format. Is there a slight left or right shift that can compensate? I will be shooting in some situations where symetry is key to the shot, so I wonder how I can figure that out.



check out a Peleng 8mm. I have heard mixed things about it, but have never used it myself. It is, although, the only 8mm screw mount lens you will find. I know, I have looked far and wide. Pentax has a 17mm screw mount. It is ?4 at the widest, but has insanely close focus, which makes for super cool shots. So the point is that you can put together a hodge podge of lenses to make a prime set. You could do all Pentax Super Takumar with the 8mm being the exception.

Did Pentax ever make a screw mount lens wider than 17mm? Anybody? I don't think so, but it who knows.


chris
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#5 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 03:50 PM

Another question I had was when framing through the eyepiece how do you know how to position your camera to get what you want in there with the new super16 format. Is there a slight left or right shift that can compensate?


There's a v-shaped notch in the middle of the viewfinder and slightly (10-15%) to the right of that is frame center so frame things a little bit off the v to the right, you'll be okay. Do some tests so you know what to expect but you'll still have to guesstimate a touch w/ anything at the furthest right part of the frame.
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#6 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:05 PM

check out a Peleng 8mm. I have heard mixed things about it, but have never used it myself. It is, although, the only 8mm screw mount lens you will find. I know, I have looked far and wide. Pentax has a 17mm screw mount. It is ?4 at the widest, but has insanely close focus, which makes for super cool shots. So the point is that you can put together a hodge podge of lenses to make a prime set. You could do all Pentax Super Takumar with the 8mm being the exception.

Did Pentax ever make a screw mount lens wider than 17mm? Anybody? I don't think so, but it who knows.
chris



The Peleng 8mm will cover 35mm (as a true circular fisheye, it is decent glass and is pretty cheap for such a wide lens. I have one I use on a Nikkon mount Eyemo 35mm rig.

-Rob-
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#7 Will Montgomery

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:06 PM

check out a Peleng 8mm.


I have one and use it on the K3 from time to time. It is very distorted on the edges but it can be a cool effect if that's what you are looking for. You can get an entire room in a shot very easily with it.


Did Pentax ever make a screw mount lens wider than 17mm? Anybody? I don't think so, but it who knows.

The widest I've seen is a 20mm from Pentax and that is pretty rare.
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#8 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:25 AM

"It says that some 35 mm slr lenses will cover the full 16mm frame. Can you recoomend any wide angle ones that will not distort the image? Any info on this would be so appreciated."

All 35mm format lenses will cover the Super 16mm frame.

As has already been mentioned with regards to wide angles, the Peleng 8mm is one possible choice for the M42 screw mount version of the K3. Actually, it is one of the very few choices. Unfortunately, most of the wide angle lenses designed for 35mm still photography will not produce much of a wide angle view when mounted on a 16mm camera. For example, although 20mm would be considered quite wide on a 35mm still camera, on 16mm it would not be that much wider than a 25mm 'standard lens'. Yes, Pentax did manufacture an ultra wide angle 17mm Takumar lens with an M42 mount but this is the same focal length as the wide angle setting of the 17-69 Meteor lens that is supplied with the K3 - which is not very wide at all on 16mm film.
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#9 Molly Corey

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 11:39 PM

Is the jist I am getting that the 16 mm still shows some distortion with the super 16 frame. I would like the widest possible without distortion.

I am also looking in to buying a macro lens. Can the Krasnogorsk take a volna-9 or industar 61. Will those lenses cover the full super 16 frame. Has anyone had any experience with those lenses?


thanks,
molly
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#10 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:36 AM

I don't have any experience with those lenses but Pentax did make a Takumar 50mm macro lens that should give very high magnification when mounted on your K3, provided that yours is the one with the M42 screw mount. However at f4, it is just a little slow.
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#11 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 02:46 AM

I doubt there would be very much distortion at all if you used a 16mm lens with a Super 16 frame because 16mm is not very wide. The shortest focal length setting on the standard Meteor zoom is 17mm and that is barely wide angle. I'm sure that a difference in focal length of 1mm is not going to make a world of difference with regards to angle of view and distortion. When you zoom the Meteor lens out to it's widest while looking through the K3 viewfinder, I'm sure you don't see any distortion at all. However, the 16mm lens will at least enable you to cover the super 16 frame, if it's the Zenitar 16mm lens that is occasionally seen on ebay which is designed for 35mm. There would be a noticeable increase in the horizontal angle of view with the 16mm lens since you will be exposing a super 16 frame (but not a huge increase) and if there is any distortion, it would be very minimal. With the Peleng 8mm, there is some distortion when used on 16mm but that is an extremely short focal length circular fisheye lens for 35mm. The Zenitar 16mm lens is a fisheye lens too (for 35mm) but that is a full frame fisheye lens (which has less distortion than a circular type) and has a considerably longer focal length so I would be very surprised if there was much noticeable distortion when that lens is used in super 16mm. And regardless, I don't think you have much choice since there are not too many options for wide angle lenses for the M42 mount in 16mm.

Edited by Patrick Cooper, 29 April 2007 - 02:50 AM.

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#12 Joe Briggs

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 05:36 PM

And regardless, I don't think you have much choice since there are not too many options for wide angle lenses for the M42 mount in 16mm.


Since you are talking about SLR lenses, if you want more of a wide angle lens get a Nikon to M42 adaptor and check out some wide angle Nikkor lenses.
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#13 Will Montgomery

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 09:08 PM

Since you are talking about SLR lenses, if you want more of a wide angle lens get a Nikon to M42 adaptor and check out some wide angle Nikkor lenses.


Just make sure they are fully manual aperture capable lenses.
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 02:39 PM

Did Pentax ever make a screw mount lens wider than 17mm? Anybody? I don't think so, but it who knows.


They made a 15/3.5 rectilinear in 1975.
This is when they were introducing the K-mount and starting to phase out the screw mount.

So they made a small run of the 15mm M42. It will be difficult to find one and expect to pay a lot since it would be a collectable.

F/3.5 is on the slow side for a lens that would be used for a lot of interiors.

http://www.m-fortytw...AllTakumars.php
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#15 Topher Ryan

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 03:46 PM

"It says that some 35 mm slr lenses will cover the full 16mm frame. Can you recoomend any wide angle ones that will not distort the image? Any info on this would be so appreciated."

All 35mm format lenses will cover the Super 16mm frame.



Is that a safe generalization to make, even on cameras without the re-centered mount (as in the usual K-3 super 16 mod)? If so, I'm glad to hear it.

I am looking specifically for a wide-angle/fisheye lens for my K3 (m42). I am not too worried about barrel distortion for my purposes. Any of you guys/gals with the Peleng 8mm or Zenitar fish happen to have any stills or clips of those shooting super 16?

Great thread... once I found it. Should this be moved to the russian 16mm section? I certainly would have found it much sooner, but it does have some useful general 16mm info.

Something that just came to mind:
If I am shooting a lens with barrel distortion, and the mount is slightly off center of the frame (as in the usual K-3 super 16 mod), I'm guessing I will have asymmetrical bending of lines from one side of the frame to the other. Is it too miniscule to be noticed. Am I over-thinking this? Ha, I think all of my posts thus far have concerned re-centering my m42... please bear with me and my mounting insecurities. ;)
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#16 Ira Ratner

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 05:26 PM

Topher, thanks for FINDING this!!!

I'm learning a ton here too!!!

I went to that great link about all of the Takumar lenses ever made (in reference to the 15mm), but I STILL can't figure what lens I have in my hand right now:

I bought a cheap 55mm 1.8 Super Takumar (minimum aperature 16) a few weeks ago just to experiment with a fixed lens on the K-3 as opposed to the stock zoom. And they made so may lenses that I still can't identify the one I have.
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#17 Will Montgomery

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

The Peleng 8mm doesn't really give you a a "fish eye" effect on a 16mm camera. You'd need to find a 4mm lens or something like that. The only ones I know of are c-mount TV lenses which can be purchased new from B&H Photo for around $135. I've never heard of a m42 to c-mount adapter but I suppose it could be made.

I'd have to dig for samples of the Peleng on my K3... I can tell you that it's not that bad of a distortion but you can notice it if you look for it.

If I am shooting a lens with barrel distortion, and the mount is slightly off center of the frame (as in the usual K-3 super 16 mod), I'm guessing I will have asymmetrical bending of lines from one side of the frame to the other. Is it too miniscule to be noticed. Am I over-thinking this? Ha, I think all of my posts thus far have concerned re-centering my m42... please bear with me and my mounting insecurities.

Since the distortion is consistent on each frame you wouldn't notice it; it's a non factor. You might notice the unbalanced nature of the distortion more in panning shots.

There are some Russians selling re-aligned lens mounts for the K3 now on eBay. For about $150 you can eliminate the off-center issue.
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#18 Ira Ratner

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:28 PM

The Peleng 8mm is going for 400 bucks now. Wow--that's a lot of money for a novelty effect, but probably a cool one.

But if you're regular 16mm and have the standard K-3 (M42) with its 17 to 69 zoom like me, aside from using primes in the first place, is there any prime option to give me a wider field of view?

Like, are any 15mm options out there a big difference from 17mm?
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#19 Topher Ryan

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:50 PM

The Peleng 8mm doesn't really give you a a "fish eye" effect on a 16mm camera. You'd need to find a 4mm lens or something like that.

...

I'd have to dig for samples of the Peleng on my K3... I can tell you that it's not that bad of a distortion but you can notice it if you look for it.


Maybe I shouldn't say "fisheye" as I don't want the the full circular vignetting like the Peleng gives on a 35mm slr. I just want the widest possible lens that covers the super 16 frame with no vignetting. It sounds like the Peleng 8 is going to be my solution as far as m42 mounting.

I have a kinoptik 5.7 (Arri std. mount) for some of my other rigs, but I don't want to do major surgery to the K3 at this point to get a compatible mount.

My little wind-up Russian tank is going into battle and the Peleng and other m42 glass will be (slightly) easier to replace should she take a hit.

Will, I'd love to see any samples if you ever come across them. Were you shooting with a re-centered mount or the stock K3 mount ring?
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#20 Ian Cooper

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 02:28 AM

A quick rattle in the archives has produced this thread. It features a film clip shot on a super-16 modified K3 with a Peleng 8mm lens. This is the direct link to the site with the clip.

There've been a couple of other clips posted here in recent years showing the Peleng on the K3. At the moment I'm 75% of the way through machining an adapter so I can use a Arri-Std mount 10mm lens on my R16 bayonet mount K3. As I've just bought another camera I suspect that particular project will get shelved now though.
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