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Some post shooting questions


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#1 Zamir Merali

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:31 PM

Hi

I just got my first 100 feet of 16mm film back from technicolor canada. I got it processed and telecined to Mini-dv with their student rate. I have some questions about the results. The footage I got back was actually pretty grainy even though there was ample light and the 7218 film is supposed to have very minimal grain. Why is this? I am guessing it is because of the telecine although technicolor should have had a pretty high quality telecine. Is there any chance it is because of the lenses?

There were also some blue flashes that happened randomly throughout the movie. What could be these be from? I was using an arriflex 16s and I think there may be some small light leaks, what could I do to cover these up? Thanks for answering my questions, shooting film for the first time was a great experience. I am goign to be doing it alot more in the future.

Zamir Merali

This is an example of a particularily bad grainy from from the movie. Most of it wasn't this grainy.

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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:45 PM

500T stock isn't grainless in 16mm, not by a long shot.

Anyway, your shot would have looked less grainy if it had been transferred darker probably, with deeper blacks, though it would have thrown the boy in silhouette. It looks a little "lifted".

But it's always hard to tell if that's noise or grain in the transfer.
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#3 Zamir Merali

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:53 PM

When I look at my negative it looks pretty thin. I think a combo of the mini-dv transfer, and my mistakenly underexposing the scenes was responsible for creating most of the grain. I'm getting a light meter pretty soon, I had to use a slr to meter those scenes and my slr's lowest reading isf f 4 so I had to guess for anything below that.Thanks David.
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#4 David Sweetman

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:19 PM

When I look at my negative it looks pretty thin. I think a combo of the mini-dv transfer, and my mistakenly underexposing the scenes was responsible for creating most of the grain. I'm getting a light meter pretty soon, I had to use a slr to meter those scenes and my slr's lowest reading isf f 4 so I had to guess for anything below that.Thanks David.

If you're doing a supervised telecine, there's an easy way to tell wheter what you're seeing is noise or grain -- tell the colorist to stop the neg - take a close look at it - start it - stop it - start it - stop it -- if it's grain you're seeing, the particles will stop and start along with the negative. If it's noise, the particles will keep shooting around when the neg is stopped. That's important because noise isn't something a colorist will point out to you. The first time I did a TK I was told all the noise was grain (and there was a lot of it!)

Edited by David Sweetman, 25 April 2007 - 07:21 PM.

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#5 Zamir Merali

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:24 PM

How can you get rid of the noise during telecine? Thanks.
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#6 David Sweetman

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:52 PM

How can you get rid of the noise during telecine? Thanks.

I don't think there are quick fixes, it is inherent in the machines, and might worsen over time (a colorist I know said he left a certain place partially because the machines were getting noisy...)

Generally student rates get put on the noisier machines with the trainee colorists, it's a good idea to figure out what machine you'll have it transferred on and do some research.
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#7 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:02 PM

"If you're doing a supervised telecine, there's an easy way to tell whether what you're seeing is noise or grain -- tell the colorist to stop the neg - take a close look at it - start it - stop it - start it - stop it -- if it's grain you're seeing, the particles will stop and start along with the negative. If it's noise, the particles will keep shooting around when the neg is stopped. That's important because noise isn't something a colorist will point out to you. The first time I did a TK I was told all the noise was grain (and there was a lot of it!)"

Not necessarily possible. I haven't sat in too much on color timing sessions that were done on a Rank Cinetel (what I am guessing yours was on), but the times I have, the system can not display a "frozen" image, when they stop the machine, the image just falls apart.

The Rank is, in my experience, an extremely noisy machine. So noisy that I push all the shows I am doing that have DVCam dallies to transfer on at least a Shadow, even if only getting a DVCam tape off the transfer (I am actually doing that tomorrow). Most of the post houses have been pretty accommodating on their pricing for this type of scenario.

I would definitely not recommend transferring standard 16 shot on 500 speed film on an old Rank (which I am willing to bet yours was) if you want a clean image, on top of what all the others have said (thin neg, etc.).

Kevin Zanit
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#8 Mark Henderson

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:11 PM

"There were also some blue flashes that happened randomly throughout the movie."

As for the flashes...

You may be taking your eye away from the eye piece while you are shooting. This allows light to travel down the eye piece backwards and expose the film. I sometimes do it as a "look" when shooting music videos. That might be your "problem".
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