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DVXfootage rendering...technical advice???


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#1 seth christian

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 02:12 AM

we're having a small issue with rendering out of FCP with some
DVX100 footage.....Seems to be losing some color, brightens, and
shows more grain! :(
Even rendering out with "uncomp. 8bit" seems to look a bit this
way. ??

But EVERYTHING LOOKS FANTASTIC IN FCP! :)

any professional avenues on compressor choices, etc.., purpose is for
release on BET--if that helps context of final delivery.

a little TECHNICAL advice. thanks

??
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#2 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 02:17 AM

Have you tried doing a "Print to Tape" instead of exporting to a mov file?

I'm not sure what could be causing this issue, but perhaps the print to tape could be a work around in the meantime.
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#3 adam berk

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 02:18 AM

we're having a small issue with rendering out of FCP with some
DVX100 footage.....Seems to be losing some color, brightens, and
shows more grain! :(
Even rendering out with "uncomp. 8bit" seems to look a bit this
way. ??

But EVERYTHING LOOKS FANTASTIC IN FCP! :)

any professional avenues on compressor choices, etc.., purpose is for
release on BET--if that helps context of final delivery.

a little TECHNICAL advice. thanks

??



Keep in mind that when viewing video inside FCP, you are looking at the image with an adjusted gamma. FCP adjusts the gamma of the image to closer approximate what it will look like on a video monitor. This is why the image looks different when viewing it in other applications like QT Player, etc.

The gamma adjustment in FCP is only for viewing, it's not rendered into the image.

This isn't the first time this confusion has come up. It's actually been a big source of confusion for quite some time and has gotten the best of a lot of us, so don't feel bad!

Try viewing the same source clip in QT player and FCP at the same time, you'll see what I mean.

Check this out.......

http://docs.info.app...ml?artnum=93794
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#4 seth christian

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 12:05 PM

very helpful! :)

this is very annoying though.

bottom line-----If you are wanting to submit a DVX100 music video for
TV broadcast,.....what is the best route of getting it to them without
losing ANY quality of image, color, res., etc... ???

print to tape, then posthouse it to digibeta?
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#5 adam berk

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 01:30 PM

very helpful! :)

this is very annoying though.

bottom line-----If you are wanting to submit a DVX100 music video for
TV broadcast,.....what is the best route of getting it to them without
losing ANY quality of image, color, res., etc... ???

print to tape, then posthouse it to digibeta?



If you're editing in native DV, which I assume you are, and you've applied any sort of effect - even a dissolve....I would NOT print to tape. I would set your finished sequence compressor setting to an uncompressed format, render, then export an uncompressed quicktime file or an uncompressed frame sequence. Take that uncompressed master to your post house and lay off to digibeta from that. Anytime you render anything in DV, you are applying a 2nd pass of the DV 5:1 compression. DV was never designed for that. It was designed to be an acquisition format only, thus only designed to withstand one pass without significant image quality degradation.

Hope this helps.

PS: Here's a JPG of first generation DVCAM telecine, next to the same frame with 4 more passes of DV compression.

DV_Demo.jpg
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#6 seth christian

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 03:27 PM

its helpfull indeed!

Upon rendering out uncompressed...it shows it with a little different colors. weird.
when rendering, do you use: Quicktime movie, Compressor, or Convert to Quicktime option.? and when you choose "uncompressed", I've been using Quicktime movie/compressor-none/everything else-none. Or should I be using something else?

Using DVX100, for rendering out like this...does it matter if its 8-bit or 10-bit?

keep it comin, this is great ya'll !

(I've read that FCP does automatically apply a gamma setting to help it look best on the monitor, which confuses people when they try to render it down for tv. I dont want to get to the
posthouse and find out its too bright/grainy etc. due to gamma settings, unless they can just fix it to look the best. Any thoughts to this issue as well?)

Edited by seth christian, 28 April 2007 - 03:28 PM.

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#7 adam berk

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 03:52 PM

its helpfull indeed!

Upon rendering out uncompressed...it shows it with a little different colors. weird.
when rendering, do you use: Quicktime movie, Compressor, or Convert to Quicktime option.? and when you choose "uncompressed", I've been using Quicktime movie/compressor-none/everything else-none. Or should I be using something else?

Using DVX100, for rendering out like this...does it matter if its 8-bit or 10-bit?

keep it comin, this is great ya'll !

(I've read that FCP does automatically apply a gamma setting to help it look best on the monitor, which confuses people when they try to render it down for tv. I dont want to get to the
posthouse and find out its too bright/grainy etc. due to gamma settings, unless they can just fix it to look the best. Any thoughts to this issue as well?)



The workflow I usually use, if I have to master a DV project directly out of FCP is this:

1. Finish work

2. Go to sequence settings

3. Set compressor to "None" - this is RGB, which is compatible with all systems, including Quicktime for Windows, and very old versions of Quicktime.
If you're just going to another Final Cut Pro for the layoff to digibeta, you can use "Uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2" to avoid the YUV to RGB conversion if
you wish. If the FCP you're going to has a Blackmagic card, you can download those codecs for free and use those accordingly, etc....... The idea
here is to render all your effects, color corrections, etc in an uncompressed manner, without re-passing the image with any more compression.

4. Render

5. Export self-contained Quicktime as is, with "recompress all frames" un-checked - this is not necessary since you've already re-rendered as
uncompressed in step 4

You should be using the "Export to Quicktime" in the export menu - not compressor, and not With Quicktime Conversion - you want to be exporting the
file with the compressor setting you set in step 3.


If anyone else would like to chime in with another workflow, please do!
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#8 seth christian

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 07:25 PM

seems to improve it quite a bit.
thanks!

now whats your method for putting that into the best DVD video possible.
(4min. music video)

I think once we get a good workflow for keeping our stuff in the original
good quality as we see it in FCP onto different mediums the proper way...
I'll be happy! :)

keep it comin ya'll.

thnks again
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Visual Products

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Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets