Krasnogorsk K3 Problem
Posted 28 April 2007 - 06:33 AM
I recently purchased a K3 from a reputable private seller who shot a lot of (amateur) footage. Just got my first roll I put through it back from the lab and everything looks perfect, the exposure metre even matches my Sekonic and the film loaded great.
The problem is, when I project the film on my Bauer P7 the image is not 100% still, it is vibrating a little vertically. The vibration gets worse when footage shot at 48fps is played. The image is not moving all over the place just a a slight shaking, enough to notice and cause distraction for the viewer.
Not sure if its the projector or a problem that happens when filming?
Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated, I need to shoot some important footage soon and need to know is my K3 destined for the garbage!!
Also, its one of the K3's with the name in Russian, read that this may indicate a less reliable camera.
Posted 28 April 2007 - 09:07 AM
Posted 28 April 2007 - 09:56 AM
I just checked the film with a loupe on a lightbox and there doesn't seem to be any movement but at that size its ticky to be sure. I also cut some individual frames (I used CIR Catozzo pro so cuts should be accurate) and laid them on top of each other and there does seem to be a very minor shift, when projected it becomes more noticable, this could be the splicer though.
When I loaded the camera I was really careful to make sure everything ran smoothly and did a short run and everything seemed to be fine...but I don't have much experience with this!
Posted 28 April 2007 - 10:22 AM
Edited by Patrick Cooper, 28 April 2007 - 10:25 AM.
Posted 28 April 2007 - 10:36 AM
Strange, the vibration is not in slow motion on the 48fps footage but much worse and also in real time.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:24 AM
The shot that the vibration is most notcable is a locked down shot with no camera movement. The lens is the Meteor 5-1 and the shot is on zoom no.32. The 48fps shot with more vibration is actually zoomed in more, around no. 50.
...any suggestions would be great, getting worried that my K3 is damaged.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:47 AM
But it sounds more to me like a registration problem with the camera. If the camera has a registration problem, it would be more noticeable when you film at 48 fps (slow motion). So I would do a registration test.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:56 AM
Thanks for your reply.
Excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject but how would I perform a registration test?
And I can use a suitable tripod when making the test to rule out that as a cause for the problem.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:37 PM
Posted 30 April 2007 - 08:43 AM
Also, my lab takes a couple of weeks to process the film, is there anything I could do in the meantime to try and solve the problem with the vibrating/jumpy film?
Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:29 PM
also be sure teh registration pin movement is propper. that could be a small glitch. Another thing to consider is what are your standards? I have yet to get my first reel back from my k3, so I cannot say how stable it is for sure...but is it possible your looking for the super-steady picture of a pin-registration model and being disapointed because this is not that camera? something to consider. I'll send you my footage when the reel comes back and you can see if its any more or less stable than yours.
Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:25 AM
Thanks for the reply.
The pressure plate seems to be fine, there is a very small amount of movement but it's not lifting away or anything like that.
Check out the action in the pressure plate. I was looking at mine and it seems weak. No pressure on the plate and you can easily get registration problems.
When I loaded the film I made the loops myself to avoid the film running against the formers and getting scraped so this may not be an issue. However I had a look at the film sensor and it stands 3mm higher than the body. When i press the sensor 3mm the formers only move a small amount, I have to really press it to make the formers move out much.
also check out the action to move the loop formers. the black button at the bottom of the body pushes down the film sensor and pushes both formers out. be sure that motion is happening smoothly and they extend all the way out (you can only press with your finger, I guess you just gotta assume the pin is depressed the same amount when the door is placed.
Is this the black plastic thing 5mm in diameter that puts pressure on the plate, if so it seems fine. There is a tiny screw above it, I wonder does this increse/decrease the pressure on the plate?
also be sure teh registration pin movement is propper. that could be a small glitch.
This is a concern, perhaps I am looking for too much from the K3. I would have thought that the image might be quite stable though.
Another thing to consider is what are your standards? I have yet to get my first reel back from my k3, so I cannot say how stable it is for sure...but is it possible your looking for the super-steady picture of a pin-registration model and being disapointed because this is not that camera? something to consider. I'll send you my footage when the reel comes back and you can see if its any more or less stable than yours.
It would be great to see your footage, I have looked at other footage online and it seems pretty smooth, there is a lot of timelapse stuff which may have small movement anyway. The main problem with this is it is only really noticable when the camera is fixed to a tripod, if there is movement it distracts from the vibration. Perhaps it appears alot and people dont notice due to filming styles.
Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:41 AM
Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:47 AM
I have also found a local repair shop who have agreed to have a look at the camera and jumpy footage tomorrow.
I will post any results when I have them.
Posted 12 February 2008 - 07:21 PM
Posted 13 February 2008 - 04:29 AM
Hey whatsup, I just got a K3 and I have the exact same problem. I sent it to technicolor and got it digitized and the 48fps clips are crap, they jump around as you described. the cam has a problem with that. i havent been able to determine the problem yet either. i can assure you its got nothing to do with the tripod. the mechanicals inside are whats F***ing things up. ill post a clip of the problems soon. tell me if you found a solution yet
At first, need service and adjust of K-3 camera.
K-3 create for normal speed shooting at 24 fps and high speed shooting can lost a some value of quality of footage.
Need check of main cog's wheel, additional film rolls and film channel.
The first test, the camera lost of size of loops or not.
the very important size of loops. The upper loop not must have too big size.
But, I prefer of other idea - to switch over to Kinor-16 SX-2M.
K-3 don't have registration pin - Kinor-16 have registration pin.
K-3 don't have film side clamping on film channel, Kinor-16 have clamping plate from side and from rear side of film.
Kinor-16 can use of 100 ft and 400 ft film magazines, have electrical motor and can be upgrade on crystal sync speed version, have a few zoom lenses, prime lenses, super wide angle ( 6 mm) prime lens and more.