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Aaton Penelope-2


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#1 Nathan Milford

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:38 AM

http://www.aaton.com.../film/penelope/

Take a gander at the second PDF for a nice writeup on Aaton's 2perf workflow.

One sweet unit!

- nathan
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#2 Matt Frank

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:04 AM

Looks pretty sweet. I use an LTR-7 and I love its form factor and ergonomics so I am glad to see how similar this looks.
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#3 Tim Carroll

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:11 AM

Very cool Nathan. Thanks.

-Tim
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#4 Adam Thompson

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 12:39 PM

Finally, a true film and/or digital camera system for professionals- from a company that knows the needs of pros.

Nathan, any insider info on the digi mags availability or development?
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#5 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 02:03 PM

Finally, a true film and/or digital camera system for professionals- from a company that knows the needs of pros.

Nathan, any insider info on the digi mags availability or development?


Looking at the stills on their publicity the 2.35:1 2 perf frame sits evenly between the sprockets with a small amount of matting either side, is that correct?
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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 03:22 PM

Looking at the stills on their publicity the 2.35:1 2 perf frame sits evenly between the sprockets with a small amount of matting either side, is that correct?


That's what it looks like.


I'm impressed. The whole deal seems very well thought out in this age of "make it now and figure out how to use it well in the next year."
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 04:31 PM

Looking at the stills on their publicity the 2.35:1 2 perf frame sits evenly between the sprockets with a small amount of matting either side, is that correct?


Hi Andy,

Then the lens is centered for S35.

Stephen
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#8 Nathan Milford

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 06:07 PM

Yeah, it's centered on the negative, not for academy.

In a camera that only shoots 2-perf and 3-perf (despite what I claimed otherwise about its capabilities, 4-perf would have made it more expensive of a design than they wanted it to be) there is no need to have anything academy 'centered,' though every other iteration of Techniscope I've encountered has it academy centered.

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#9 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 11:43 PM

I am sure it won't be long before someone asks if he can shoot 2-perf 1.33 format with it.
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#10 Nathan Milford

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 06:56 AM

I know people who have shot 2-perf for 1.85 extraction.

There is more negative for 1.85 in 2-perf than in 16mm, but its a bit daft, as you're wasting a lot of film and paying more.

2-perf is pretty much a widescreen format. Want to shoot something else? Then use a different format.

- nathan
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#11 Nate Downes

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:50 AM

I know that I will be lining up to rent one of these when they appear, for testing purposes of course.... 8)
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#12 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:00 PM

Looking at the stills on their publicity the 2.35:1 2 perf frame sits evenly between the sprockets with a small amount of matting either side, is that correct?


Which makes it incompatible with previous Techniscope cameras such as ArriIIC. CM3 with the old style Scope aperture 23.8mm ought to be easily modified, since the centered frame still falls inside the scope aperture. Open up the Techniscope matte.

Do the arri Techniscope cameras use the same configuration?
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#13 Nathan Milford

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:18 PM

If you have an Aaton A-body and Cameflex, Kinor or ARRI-IIc B-body on the same shoot, you will have an offset between the A-Body and B-Body on the negative.

I doubt if 'compatibility' is a major concern if you're going to a DI. It will not matter all that much what the centering is to anyone but the dailies/scanner guy.

That is, unless, you're foolish enough to try to do everything optically.
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#14 Dan Goulder

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:22 PM

Do the arri Techniscope cameras use the same configuration?

No. (One of my camera bodies is a 2C/T Techniscope.) The actual gate dimensions are different from the one Aaton is proposing, which appears to be designed to harbor a 2-perf image within a super 35 width gate.
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#15 Nathan Milford

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:35 PM

Once you leave the world of 4-perf regular 35mm you leave the world of strictly established gate dimensions.

With S35, 3-perf, S16 exact dimensions differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. For S16 there is a reasonable discrepency for the size of the S16 gate due to the placement of Aaton's TC printer and ARRI's registration pin. They couldn't come together on a spec.
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#16 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:51 PM

No. (One of my camera bodies is a 2C/T Techniscope.) The actual gate dimensions are different from the one Aaton is proposing, which appears to be designed to harbor a 2-perf image within a super 35 width gate.


I was referring to the new ones, which are rental only. Arricams and 235s.

You'll find an ArriMedia ad for them at he bottom of this page:

http://www.cinematog...n...60&start=60
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#17 Alexander Joyce

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:25 PM

I heard from someone here that their ARRISCAN can do 2-perf since it was developed in New Zealand. I'm guessing that means WETA. Anyways she said that ARRI however had disabled the 2-perf function in their scanner. How hard would it be for them to enable this function again? Surely ARRI would want to do this now that they are offering 2-perf movements for the 235 and the ARRICAM's.
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#18 Jon-Hebert Barto

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 09:50 AM

Thanks for the update Nathan. I love what this company is doing. They are setting everything up quite nicely! Post chain, everything is going sweet. I love a good company that wants to take the time to it right! I wish Aaton made cars!!!

-Jonnie
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#19 Chris Keth

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 11:26 AM

I heard from someone here that their ARRISCAN can do 2-perf since it was developed in New Zealand. I'm guessing that means WETA. Anyways she said that ARRI however had disabled the 2-perf function in their scanner. How hard would it be for them to enable this function again? Surely ARRI would want to do this now that they are offering 2-perf movements for the 235 and the ARRICAM's.


The arriscan brochure still lists 2-perf as a scanning option.

http://www.arri.com/...AN_Brochure.pdf
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#20 Thomas Chatelet

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 05:57 AM

I know people who have shot 2-perf for 1.85 extraction.

There is more negative for 1.85 in 2-perf than in 16mm, but its a bit daft, as you're wasting a lot of film and paying more.

2-perf is pretty much a widescreen format. Want to shoot something else? Then use a different format.

It sounds a bit like a fixed idea, don't you think ?

With 1.85 35mm/2perf, the wast of negative area is obvious, but, compared to 1.85 super 16 mm, the ratio 'gain of image quality / raise of cost' can largly be discussed.

An AFC cinematographer has just published (in french) a technical/cost study about shooting in 2perf for HDTV (so an even smaller frame : 1.77).
Briefly, he says the gain of 35/2p negative area (comprared to 1.78 s16 one) and the increase of the 'native' dynamic range of the scans' sensor magnify the 4.4.4 RVB 10 bit quantification of the image signal...
For the money part (technical cost only, as camera rent, lab and complete post workflow ?editing and sound part included) , an french HDTV show of 90 minutes cost 133,000 ? in S16, 154,000 ? in 35/2p and 172,000 ? in 35/3p. The gap is not that wide, isn't it ?

If you have an Aaton A-body and Cameflex, Kinor or ARRI-IIc B-body on the same shoot, you will have an offset between the A-Body and B-Body on the negative.

I doubt if 'compatibility' is a major concern if you're going to a DI. It will not matter all that much what the centering is to anyone but the dailies/scanner guy.

That is, unless, you're foolish enough to try to do everything optically.

Well, a DI is still a lot of money and an non essential step workflow for many films. I was glad to hear that Arane (french lab in Paris) was studying a complete optical 2 perf chaine.
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