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#1 carl spring

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:17 AM

hope this is the right part of the forum to post, seems the place to pop it.
any way here goes

A budget idea for doing a time splice shot into my head, and was wanderng if people thought it might work, ok heres the plan idea

buy a bulk of compact 35mm cameras off of ebay and carboots etc( all the same manufacturer and buy same film) and create a fixed stand to mount all onto. buy a remote control for the cameras(just the one hopefully dependant on modal i spose but hopefully get compatable cameras), set up the shot individually and fire off all using the remote. i know alot will be dependant on given light etc. also how many should i get, i spose the more the better really?

just wanted some feedback on if people think this would be a good experiment to conduct?

any feedback would be great

cheers all :blink:
carl spring
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#2 Nick Mulder

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:52 AM

right, then you have a series of stills - however many cameras you have multiplied by 1/24 sec is the amount of time you will be able to run the slice for without replaying the same segments... & you wont be able to have partial motion, only halted motion...

"into your head" - what exactly do you mean by this ? towards your head ? actually through into it ? Three Kings bullet styles ? ?

Your cameras will have to be very similar in terms of any time delay in firing from the remote or you will get jumpiness in the resulting slice - ie. I dont think carboots and ebay cams are going to be winners...

The whole point of experimenting is to find out if 'it would be good' - so I reckon>> go do it!
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#3 carl spring

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 02:01 PM

shot into my head was really just to say that i had the idea, but thanks for your suggestion, i shall experiment and see what happens, might see about trying to find the most common compact camera with remote feature, so i will be able to find about a dosen of them at the cheap(fingers crossed) in an attempt to avoid slow/uneven action for the shutters, which is one thing i really didnt think about, so many thanks for that particular suggestion.


any other suggestions would be really helpful

cheers

carl spring
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 02:07 PM

shot into my head was really just to say that i had the idea, but thanks for your suggestion, i shall experiment and see what happens, might see about trying to find the most common compact camera with remote feature, so i will be able to find about a dosen of them at the cheap(fingers crossed) in an attempt to avoid slow/uneven action for the shutters, which is one thing i really didnt think about, so many thanks for that particular suggestion.
any other suggestions would be really helpful

cheers

carl spring


Hi Carl,

FWIW Dayton Taylor's custom built cameras with multi lenses can't even be focused & stop is about F8 from memory.

This link may be of interest. You should note that the techniques are patented, you may need a license to use material you shoot!
http://www.digitalai...-Techniques.pdf

Stephen
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#5 Nick Mulder

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 04:31 PM

Registration of the images on the film could be an issue when it comes time to scan. I'm assuming you'll shoot the full roll on the cameras...
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 04:58 PM

Registration of the images on the film could be an issue when it comes time to scan. I'm assuming you'll shoot the full roll on the cameras...


Hi Nick,

Thats really not an issue as the images always have to be lined up frame by frame.

Stephen
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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 06:02 PM

I've done several lineups on el-cheapo time slice effects. The biggest problem I see, other than people getting way too ambitious with about four cameras, is just horribly bad framing - bits of the subject simply out of frame on some of the shots. It is not very easy at all to line everything up and have your actor hit all the marks so that all the cameras get an acceptable shot at the right moment - especially at the right moment in what's likely to be a high speed stunt or something.

The second biggest problem, which is more insidious because it isn't easily fixable, is that cheap cameras don't often have very reliable shutter releases. Expect to see your action pop back and forth through the desired moment as you spin around it - they won't all fire precisely at the same instant. Again, this is exacerbated by the fact that you will presumably want to shoot high speed things to grandstand the effect.

Phil
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#8 Nick Mulder

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 06:18 PM

Hi Nick,

Thats really not an issue as the images always have to be lined up frame by frame.

Stephen


I've never scanned film - cine film that is... I thought it would go through some sort of 'faux-vistavision auto doohickey scanner thingybob' that presumed a certain amount of perfs per frame - If in essence you have to line then up frame by frame when either scanning or putting together in FCP or both or whatever then that is what I was referring to - I would have thought a predictable frame size/position would be preferred, but yes I see now the concern is kinda redundant considering the application/process in this instance :blink:

Edited by Nick Mulder, 10 May 2007 - 06:20 PM.

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#9 Michael Nash

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:56 AM

BTW, it's time slice http://www.timeslice...m/cameras.shtml

In addition to repositioning each frame, you'll have to do some color correction to each frame to smooth out the variances in each lens and camera.
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 03:38 AM

I've never scanned film - cine film that is... I thought it would go through some sort of 'faux-vistavision auto doohickey scanner thingybob' that presumed a certain amount of perfs per frame - If in essence you have to line then up frame by frame when either scanning or putting together in FCP or both or whatever then that is what I was referring to - I would have thought a predictable frame size/position would be preferred, but yes I see now the concern is kinda redundant considering the application/process in this instance :blink:


Hi Nick,

Until fairly recently no telecine supported VistaVision so the film was tececined on a Spirit in 4 pers S35 and the 2 half's stitched togther in post. One of the reasons this was never a cheap process!

Stephen
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#11 carl spring

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 10:48 AM

thanks to everyone for all suggestions and even doubts on the original concept(can learn from all thoughts), for those debating on how i will get the frames together on an editing system, i will scan all individually and probably pop them into shake and have a play, thought about maybe using the smoothcam node to get them lined up nicely, will prob export from shake to final cut pro for colour correction or i might do this previously in photoshop on each individual frame for a bit better accuracy then pop them into shake

thanks again to all. look forward to any other insights that people wish to express.


carl spring :rolleyes:
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#12 Ken Minehan

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 11:23 PM

Hi guys, great thread, very interesting. I read the PDF link and i was wandering, after setting up 80 cameras for example, how do they get the framing right for each camera so when strung together in a sequence, it flows smoothly? Or is alot of that readjusting done in post? How do they activate all the cameras shutter simultaneously?

thanks
Ken Minehan
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#13 Nick Mulder

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:13 AM

How do they activate all the cameras shutter simultaneously?

Well it depends on the shutter mechanism and signal required to trip it ... In general you just give all the cameras the same required signal at the same time. There are so many methods to delve into but most are either providing a voltage of some sort which will trip a transistor/equivalent or just providing a closed circuit...

Just wire em all up and make sure you've got the juice
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#14 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:56 AM

Hi guys, great thread, very interesting. I read the PDF link and i was wandering, after setting up 80 cameras for example, how do they get the framing right for each camera so when strung together in a sequence, it flows smoothly? Or is alot of that readjusting done in post? How do they activate all the cameras shutter simultaneously?

thanks
Ken Minehan


Hi,

I remember Dayton Taylor's multi lens cameras don't have shutters at all. He pulls a black & white film with 8 perfs black & 8 perfs white etc infront of the unexposed film!

Recently, I was setting up an array of 50 DSLR's , I had to manually set up each camera. I wanted to pan & tilt the cameras throughout the array, it was not easy! With digital cameras it's possible to speed ramp between the cameras, I ramped from 500 fps to 25 over the 50 frames.

Stephen
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#15 Ken Minehan

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:04 AM

how did you do that. Is it just a matter of aligning the cameras closer together for the faster frame rate and space then out for the slower rate?

50 DSLR's will only give you 2 seconds of footage right?

regards
Ken Minehan
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#16 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:58 PM

how did you do that. Is it just a matter of aligning the cameras closer together for the faster frame rate and space then out for the slower rate?

50 DSLR's will only give you 2 seconds of footage right?

regards
Ken Minehan


Hi,

The cameras were all spaced out evenly, just the timing of when they fired changed.

Sometimes the frames get 'inbetweened' in post, but yes basically 50 frames, I had a Viper as camera 51.

sw_timetrackb.JPG

Stephen
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#17 Ken Minehan

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 10:03 PM

Just out of curiosity, did you make this rig yourself?
Do you have to rent this kind of set up? How much is it to rent?
What is the software used to fire off the cameras simultaneously or at different timing?

Thanks
Ken
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#18 Ken Minehan

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 01:41 AM

Hi guys, i found this site about timeslice. This guy uses 60 cameras (i think) which he says gives him around 2 seconds of footage. You can click on an example clip on the below link. They show you photos strung together before the post work, and the photos strung together after post work. The thing i'm confused about is, how do you get a smooth 4 second clip with 50 cameras?

Thanks
Ken
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#19 Stephen Williams

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 02:16 AM

Hi guys, i found this site about timeslice. This guy uses 60 cameras (i think) which he says gives him around 2 seconds of footage. You can click on an example clip on the below link. They show you photos strung together before the post work, and the photos strung together after post work. The thing i'm confused about is, how do you get a smooth 4 second clip with 50 cameras?

Thanks
Ken


Hi Ken,

'Morphing' the inbetween frames.

Stephen
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