Jump to content


Photo

Varicam for a music video


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 May 2007 - 04:26 PM

Hey guys,

I am shooting a music video in the PAL world on the Varicam next week. We (the DP and myself) are still not sure whether to shoot 720p25 or another format. I heared Avid XRESS PRO HD doesn't support this format. We will be shooting some high speed footage as well.

I will be capturing DVCPRO HD from tape onto my hard drive via the 1400 deck.

I do have XPRESS PRO HD and FCP 5 with the AJA Kona 3 card.

The final output will be on a DigiBeta master for broadcast.
  • 0

#2 Dan Goldberg

Dan Goldberg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Student
  • London, Ontario, Canada

Posted 10 May 2007 - 04:38 PM

Hey guys,

I am shooting a music video in the PAL world on the Varicam next week. We (the DP and myself) are still not sure whether to shoot 720p25 or another format. I heared Avid XRESS PRO HD doesn't support this format. We will be shooting some high speed footage as well.

I will be capturing DVCPRO HD from tape onto my hard drive via the 1400 deck.

I do have XPRESS PRO HD and FCP 5 with the AJA Kona 3 card.

The final output will be on a DigiBeta master for broadcast.


Hi Oliver,

I'm almost positive Avid XPRESS PRO HD is compatible with 720p/23.976 as well as 59.94. Its actually quite a versatile program.

As for your high-speed shooting, do you know how high-speed? 500fps? 1000fps?
  • 0

#3 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:06 PM

Hi Oliver,

I'm almost positive Avid XPRESS PRO HD is compatible with 720p/23.976 as well as 59.94. Its actually quite a versatile program.

As for your high-speed shooting, do you know how high-speed? 500fps? 1000fps?


Hey Dan,

Yea but I don't wanna shoot at those "weird" resolutions and be stuck with a risky first time down-coversion later on. So I'd rather shoot either 24fps or 25fps progressive. The Varicam shoots progressive 50fps and 60fps as far as high speed. It doesn't shoot any higher. If your project is 25fps then your high speed is 50fps, if 30fps then your high speed is 60fps.
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:38 PM

Hey guys,

I am shooting a music video in the PAL world on the Varicam next week. We (the DP and myself) are still not sure whether to shoot 720p25 or another format. I heared Avid XRESS PRO HD doesn't support this format. We will be shooting some high speed footage as well.

I will be capturing DVCPRO HD from tape onto my hard drive via the 1400 deck.

I do have XPRESS PRO HD and FCP 5 with the AJA Kona 3 card.

The final output will be on a DigiBeta master for broadcast.


Hi Oliver,

I thought the Varicam always recorded 60p, and creates other speeds by flagging frames.

BTW I like your still photography!

Best wishes,

Stephen
  • 0

#5 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 May 2007 - 06:03 PM

Hi Oliver,

I thought the Varicam always recorded 60p, and creates other speeds by flagging frames.

BTW I like your still photography!

Best wishes,

Stephen


Stephen, long time!

Weird, I thought 60 in the Varicam would be high-speed. What do you suggest shooting the MV on frame rate wise, also 1080p or 720p? I just don't wanna fall into problems in post and end up down-converting to Digibeta and capturing via SDI. I was reading over at the Avid forum that 720p25 is not here yet, only 720p 50. I don't know about FCP. I checked today the supported formats of the Kona 3 card I have on FCP 5.0.4 and saw that DVCPRO HD 720p 25 8bit is supported. Are we shooting 8 bit on set since we're pumping into tape? Man I hate FCP if that will be my only choice.

Am glad you like my photography. Due to work expansion, I have been negligent as far as updating my website, but I have about 3 galleries coming up soon; i'll let you know once they're up.

Thanks

Edited by Oliver S, 10 May 2007 - 06:05 PM.

  • 0

#6 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 10 May 2007 - 10:27 PM

Stephen, long time!

Weird, I thought 60 in the Varicam would be high-speed. What do you suggest shooting the MV on frame rate wise, also 1080p or 720p?


The Varicam only shoots/records 720P. The DVCPRO HD codec, however, will support 1080i (not 1080P).
  • 0

#7 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:23 AM

Ok, so this narrows down my choices to the better. Which 720p format should I shoot under the MV ? 720p 25 or 24? Is my footage 8 or 10 bit then ? thanks
  • 0

#8 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:01 AM

Ok, so this narrows down my choices to the better. Which 720p format should I shoot under the MV ? 720p 25 or 24? Is my footage 8 or 10 bit then ? thanks


Hi Oliver,

It's always 8 bit recorded.

For the variable frame rates you used to need a frame rate converter, not sure if that is still true.

Stephen
  • 0

#9 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 13 May 2007 - 06:10 AM

Hi Oliver,

It's always 8 bit recorded.

For the variable frame rates you used to need a frame rate converter, not sure if that is still true.

Stephen


I think the latest version of Avid XPRESS PRO HD has an option in the capture mode that says "preserve varicam frames" am assuming it does the same job of a frame rate converter.
I was speaking to the DP yesterday, I think we'll end up shooting 720p 23.976. Would my highspeed footage be double this frame rate?
  • 0

#10 Bruce Greene

Bruce Greene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 489 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 May 2007 - 12:31 AM

I think the latest version of Avid XPRESS PRO HD has an option in the capture mode that says "preserve varicam frames" am assuming it does the same job of a frame rate converter.
I was speaking to the DP yesterday, I think we'll end up shooting 720p 23.976. Would my highspeed footage be double this frame rate?

Oliver,
If you can capture only the flagged frames I would believe you can shoot high speed at any frame rate you'd like (up to 60fps). The only consideration would be using an HMI safe shutter speed for non-flickerfree HMI lights.

Shooting 23.98 is certainly the easiest frame rate for editing at this point, I think, and can be converted easily to 25fps (at least in FCP).

Lastly, I was looking for your web site to see the admired still photography, but couldn't find a link. Could you please post it here?

-bruce
  • 0

#11 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3054 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 May 2007 - 06:58 AM

If you shoot at 23.98fps, the conversion to PAL will involve a 4% speed change in audio & pictures. This usually isn't noticeable with dialogue, but might be with a Music track.

I would shoot at 25p and use an NLE that can work with that frame rate.
  • 0

#12 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 May 2007 - 11:53 AM

Stuart, the problem is that Avid doesn't work with the 25p frame rate under HD (720p 25). Am not sure if final cut does because I rarely use the software, but I heard it does. I am sure though that my Kona3 HD card does support specifically the "720p 25 8bit Varicam DVCPRO HD" so I dont see why Final cut wouldn't support it.

Bare with me guys for this is my first acquaintance with this camera!

Bruce, my page is http://www.pbase.com/hip Please critique my work. My equipment consists of an Olympus 8mp cam with 2 kit lenses. I don't have time to invest in better lenses, but I plan on focusing more on photography as a hobby this summer.

Edited by Oliver S, 14 May 2007 - 11:54 AM.

  • 0

#13 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3054 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:27 PM

FCP 5.0 definitely supports 720/25p. I had a look at the Avid Xpress website. It mentions support for the 'widely used' 720/50p format, so it would be odd if they didn't also support 25p.

Standards conversions are troublesome unless done properly, and should be avoided if you can.
  • 0

#14 Evangelos Achillopoulos

Evangelos Achillopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Digital Image Technician

Posted 18 May 2007 - 04:22 AM

Hello Oliver

The only way for euroland is FCP and Kona/blackmagic... and you can only do 25fps at 8bit in 720p. You can also do all other frame rates but you have to use the HDSDI to ingest since the FCP FRC plugin works only in NTSC world.

Regards.
  • 0

#15 Oliver Ojeil

Oliver Ojeil
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 23 May 2007 - 01:18 PM

Hey Evangelos,

Yes, I ended up shooting 720p 60 and capturing my normal and high speed (36,50,60) via the Kona3 card and FCP. I tried to capture 8bit uncompressed, but I couldn't because I don't have scsi so I captured using the DVCPRO HD 720p 60 setting. The high speed worked pretty good. It's weird though, FCP captures the footage under 960x720 not 1280x720, then in my sequence I have to enable the 16:9 option, or HD 960x720 aspect ratio in order to get the correct stretch. I didn't try downconverting to go to Digibeta, but is there anything I should be aware of, or should do to preserve my correct stretch and display?

Thanks !
  • 0

#16 Evangelos Achillopoulos

Evangelos Achillopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Digital Image Technician

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:18 PM

Hey Evangelos,

Yes, I ended up shooting 720p 60 and capturing my normal and high speed (36,50,60) via the Kona3 card and FCP. I tried to capture 8bit uncompressed, but I couldn't because I don't have scsi so I captured using the DVCPRO HD 720p 60 setting. The high speed worked pretty good. It's weird though, FCP captures the footage under 960x720 not 1280x720, then in my sequence I have to enable the 16:9 option, or HD 960x720 aspect ratio in order to get the correct stretch. I didn't try downconverting to go to Digibeta, but is there anything I should be aware of, or should do to preserve my correct stretch and display?

Thanks !

Without knowing you lost one generation by using DVCPRO HD and yes one of the problems is the resolution degrade. The next time use only the uncompressed 8bit for no generation loss. But you need fast disks ? see a raid 0 stripe with a couple of sataII disks thay would do the trick.

Varicam is bit difficult but it?s worth the effort, take a look in the following post read my post the no 6?

Next time do dupes in pal, edit, batch in HD from Aj-HD1400 in 1080 25p mode and you are ready. The problem is in the over crank and the under crank then you have to do the uncompressed trick?

Regards
  • 0

#17 Evangelos Achillopoulos

Evangelos Achillopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Digital Image Technician

Posted 24 May 2007 - 12:26 PM

The link in the above post is http://www.cinematog...showtopic=22911
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

CineTape

Opal

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Tai Audio

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

The Slider

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

CineLab

CineTape

Willys Widgets