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super8 high speed pin registered camera -- any details?


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#1 kevin jackman

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 11:02 AM

i was on the filmshooting.com website and noticed somebody selling a camera called a mekel. it is a pin registered super8 camera that operates up to 250 fps. does anybody have much information on these cameras? im interested in buying it.
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#2 Galen Carter-Jeffrey

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:58 PM

i was on the filmshooting.com website and noticed somebody selling a camera called a mekel. it is a pin registered super8 camera that operates up to 250 fps. does anybody have much information on these cameras? im interested in buying it.

http://super8wiki.co...x.php/Mekel_300

Caution - do not use lenses whose rear element extends more than 5mm beyond the mounting flange or you will damage the beamsplitter. Polaroid Polavision film is no longer available. The pin registered movement is described by US Patent 4357082. Patent document may be downloaded as ZIP file here


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#3 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 04:46 PM

I have one. I set up to use for a special effects slow motion shot in a film I shot recently and the danged thing wouldn't run. Either the power cord needs replacing or I messed up when I loaded the film. lol, I ended up having to shoot the slow motion shot with a Canon 1014XLS at 36 FPS.

Actually, it retrospect, the slow motion shot probably would have come out way too slow. If you purchase one and have any questions feel free to ask away.
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#4 Nate Downes

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:37 PM

I have one. I set up to use for a special effects slow motion shot in a film I shot recently and the danged thing wouldn't run. Either the power cord needs replacing or I messed up when I loaded the film. lol, I ended up having to shoot the slow motion shot with a Canon 1014XLS at 36 FPS.

Actually, it retrospect, the slow motion shot probably would have come out way too slow. If you purchase one and have any questions feel free to ask away.


Where did you get the film, or did you modify it to take normal S8 film?
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#5 Matthew Buick

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:41 PM

Mekel made another model which takes standard Super 8 Cartridges.
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#6 kevin jackman

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:09 PM

this camera is the super8 cart version that goes up to 250fps. it also takes c mount lenses so lens options are almost endless. it almost sounds like a super8 version of an arri sr high speed camera. talk about an ultimate super8 camera!
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#7 Patrick Neary

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 05:30 PM

Good God, a super-8 cart at 250fps.... the registration must be fantastic. Is the footage even usable?
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 03:46 AM

this camera is the super8 cart version that goes up to 250fps. it also takes c mount lenses so lens options are almost endless. it almost sounds like a super8 version of an arri sr high speed camera. talk about an ultimate super8 camera!


It doesn't have an orientable viewfinder so that will always be a huge minus in my book. It actually goes up to 300 frames per second but they recommend not going over 250 because the plastic from the cartridge might melt as the film is running out of the cartridge at such a high rate of speed. :ph34r:

I find the whole issue of super-slow motion with this particular super-8 camera to be an enigma. Originally the camera was used for Nike to do slow motion test shots of runners as their foot landed and rolled so they could study foot shock in the lab. Since there wasn't that much room in the lab and the camera was locked off the smaller super-8 camera worked perfectly and the lack of an orientable viewfinder was probably less of an issue and the 250 frames per second was pretty helpful I gather.

So now flash forward 25-30 years. I would like to use the camera for outdoors shooting but there is no orientable viewfinder. Do I really want to risk shooting a one time stunt when I can't be perfectly comfortable holding the camera the way I want to hold it, with the viewfinder swiveled to the exact position I want it at? Not really.

However, for a lock off shot it would be pretty keen to use and I occasionally find a use for it and if the right shot comes up it is pretty cool to use. What I really would like to get are some lenses that have the viewfinder split attached directly to the lens.
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#9 kevin jackman

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:54 AM

It doesn't have an orientable viewfinder so that will always be a huge minus in my book. It actually goes up to 300 frames per second but they recommend not going over 250 because the plastic from the cartridge might melt as the film is running out of the cartridge at such a high rate of speed. :ph34r:

I find the whole issue of super-slow motion with this particular super-8 camera to be an enigma. Originally the camera was used for Nike to do slow motion test shots of runners as their foot landed and rolled so they could study foot shock in the lab. Since there wasn't that much room in the lab and the camera was locked off the smaller super-8 camera worked perfectly and the lack of an orientable viewfinder was probably less of an issue and the 250 frames per second was pretty helpful I gather.

So now flash forward 25-30 years. I would like to use the camera for outdoors shooting but there is no orientable viewfinder. Do I really want to risk shooting a one time stunt when I can't be perfectly comfortable holding the camera the way I want to hold it, with the viewfinder swiveled to the exact position I want it at? Not really.

However, for a lock off shot it would be pretty keen to use and I occasionally find a use for it and if the right shot comes up it is pretty cool to use. What I really would like to get are some lenses that have the viewfinder split attached directly to the lens.


im not looking at it as just a 250fps camera. im looking at it as a pin registered camera that can be used at conventional speeds with high speed options. the image would be very sharp due to pin registration.the viewfinder s as much an issue as it is on any other super8 camera. its the steadiness im looking for and the changable glass. if anything this sounds like its essentially what would make a modern super8 camera great for the most part.
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#10 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:36 PM

Good God, a super-8 cart at 250fps.... the registration must be fantastic. Is the footage even usable?


If the plastic doesn't melt (joking, hasn't melted yet) the footage has excellent registration because one has to create a loop of film outside of the cartridge, that is where the pin registration comes in. I had sideways weave at one point but it might actually have been me causing it because of the uncomfortable position I was in when I did one particular shot, which is why I want a orientable viewfinder.

But I would settle for a lens that has a built in viewfinder as long as the viewfinder was orientable.
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#11 Patrick Neary

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:54 PM

Ahhhhh- got it! I completely missed the "pin registered" part of the subject line.

But still having a hard time trying to envision that little s-8 cart spinning away at 250fps!
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#12 chuck colburn

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:01 PM

If the plastic doesn't melt (joking, hasn't melted yet) the footage has excellent registration because one has to create a loop of film outside of the cartridge, that is where the pin registration comes in. I had sideways weave at one point but it might actually have been me causing it because of the uncomfortable position I was in when I did one particular shot, which is why I want a orientable viewfinder.

But I would settle for a lens that has a built in viewfinder as long as the viewfinder was orientable.


Angenieux made a few of the 9.5-57 f1.9 zooms with side finders but they are pretty rare. Nice lens though. And of course there are about a gizzilon 12 to 120's out there with side finders.
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#13 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:07 PM

Ahhhhh- got it! I completely missed the "pin registered" part of the subject line.

But still having a hard time trying to envision that little s-8 cart spinning away at 250fps!


Hahaha, that would make an interesting shot. Shoot the camera with the side open as it is running film through at 250 frames per second. but would I shoot the camera running at high speed in film, or video??? :rolleyes:

Ah yes, shoot it with a SECOND slow motion camera shooting the first slow motion camera, also in slow motion, or would I shoot it at regular speed?
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#14 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:08 PM

Angenieux made a few of the 9.5-57 f1.9 zooms with side finders but they are pretty rare. Nice lens though. And of course there are about a gizzilon 12 to 120's out there with side finders.


So if it looks in focus through these viewfinders, then it is in focus on the film plane as well, yes?
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#15 chuck colburn

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:33 PM

So if it looks in focus through these viewfinders, then it is in focus on the film plane as well, yes?


Yes.
The viewfinder has a ground glass area in the central portion of the frame just like a regular ground glass system in a cine camera.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 08:39 PM

Yes.
The viewfinder has a ground glass area in the central portion of the frame just like a regular ground glass system in a cine camera.


A lens with the viewfinder attached, but the viewfinder is also orientable, was that type ever made?
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#17 kevin jackman

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 02:08 PM

hehehe i dunno guys i think we are being nit picky about the orientable viewfinder. by the sounds of it it's the amera that sounds closest to a pro 16mm camera that ive seen. in comparison, how many super8 cameras have orientable viewfinders??
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 04:45 PM

hehehe i dunno guys i think we are being nit picky about the orientable viewfinder. by the sounds of it it's the amera that sounds closest to a pro 16mm camera that ive seen. in comparison, how many super8 cameras have orientable viewfinders??


The best tripod mounted camera work in my opinion is done when the camera operator is completely comfortable and balanced and in the ideal position to maintain that balance as they pan and tilt the tripod. That is why orientable viewfinders are so important.

For those of you who own a small digital camera you've probably noticed how cool it is when indoors to be able to position the viewfinder however you want, but when you go outside during the day the digital video orientable viewfinder becomes basically worthless. At that point, you actually have a less reliable viewfinder than a Super-8 viewfinder since all you get on the digital video camcorder is a tiny electronic black and white image that is not orientable, how ironic is that.
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#19 kevin jackman

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 01:30 PM

The best tripod mounted camera work in my opinion is done when the camera operator is completely comfortable and balanced and in the ideal position to maintain that balance as they pan and tilt the tripod. That is why orientable viewfinders are so important.

For those of you who own a small digital camera you've probably noticed how cool it is when indoors to be able to position the viewfinder however you want, but when you go outside during the day the digital video orientable viewfinder becomes basically worthless. At that point, you actually have a less reliable viewfinder than a Super-8 viewfinder since all you get on the digital video camcorder is a tiny electronic black and white image that is not orientable, how ironic is that.



i think what im trying to say is that in comparison to other super8 cameras out there this sounds far more versatile.it might not have that one feature, but then neither do other super8 cameras.comparing super8 to super8, this thing sounds like the absolute bees knees.
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#20 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 01:55 PM

http://super8wiki.co...x.php/Mekel_300


Those cartridges alongside the camera in the bottom picture are the Polorois instant cartridges.
The cartridges were slipped into the processor and after processing remained in the cartridges which were then slipped into the veiwer.

They were additive color, a B/W emulsion with a color mosaic filter on the base.
A special veiwer was supplied because they were too dense for normal projection.
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