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Anamorphic adapter


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#1 Antonio Bunt

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 12:31 PM

I've been doing some math but there's no way in hell I can get money for a super 16 film camera and I am running out of resurces so I can borrow one. So I am thinking in buying the sturdy K3 or a Canon Scoopic. I am thinking also about complementing it with an anamorphic adapter so I don't get the square-shaped 4:3 native to 16 mm. Any thought about this? Any suggestions? Thanks!
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#2 Keneu Luca

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:53 PM

You can see my 16mm anamorphic experiment.

info posted here on this website:
http://www.cinematog...n...=19350&st=0

video posted on youtube:

Edited by Keneu Luca, 26 May 2007 - 01:54 PM.

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#3 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 04:24 PM

I've been doing some math but there's no way in hell I can get money for a super 16 film camera and I am running out of resurces so I can borrow one. So I am thinking in buying the sturdy K3 or a Canon Scoopic. I am thinking also about complementing it with an anamorphic adapter so I don't get the square-shaped 4:3 native to 16 mm. Any thought about this? Any suggestions? Thanks!


The price of K-3 and " normal " anamorphic lens not compatible.
This is similar of bicycle with enginee from Porsche.
If you think about professional qulaity anamorphic footages at 16 mm, i think, you need mono-block anamorpphic prime or zoom lenses of 35 mm cine cameras.
Any attached of anamorphic adapters with 16 mm lenses - amateur design. Thsi will work, but at amateur level.

If you not wish pay a big money, the best way, to take front anamorphic adapter from russian 35 NAS and use with lenses of K-3 camera.
My first test with anamorphic shooting was with K-3 and dizanamorphic adapter of cine projector and
meteor zoom lens. You can go at similar way.
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 07:12 PM

There are SO many variables here I don't know where to begin.

Are you looking for more of a 16:9 format for today's widescreen TV's? If that is important than go with a K3 and widen the gate to Super 16. That will cost you about $150 to have a tech do it. Don't bother with an anamorphic setup; it is really cumbersome and probably a waste of time.

Another way to go is the Scoopic and just frame for 16:9 by using the TV safe markings on the viewfinder. The Scoopic has a major advantage over the K3 in the easy load and especially the motor. Remember, on a K3 you can't take shots longer than 20 seconds at a time due to the windup.
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#5 Tim Carroll

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 07:21 PM

Or, better yet, just get an Arriflex 16S and tape off the viewfinder for 16:9 like pictured below. Then shoot your film and have your telecine operator frame for 16:9 and transfer the footage anamorphic to tape.

Posted Image

And you will get results like this:

Posted Image

Watch the clip!

-Tim
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#6 Ian Marks

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 09:10 PM

Tim has the right idea - shoot regular 16mm but compose in the finder for 16:9. Remember that film stock today is much better than 20 years ago. Shoot a lower-ASA stock if you can. Of course, the Arri S that Tim suggests is a great way to go, but not the only way. And I agree with Will that a Scoopic will be much better than a K-3.
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#7 Chris Burke

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:33 PM

Tim has the right idea - shoot regular 16mm but compose in the finder for 16:9. Remember that film stock today is much better than 20 years ago. Shoot a lower-ASA stock if you can. Of course, the Arri S that Tim suggests is a great way to go, but not the only way. And I agree with Will that a Scoopic will be much better than a K-3.



I agree with everything that has been said, however, a Super 16 K-3 is not all that bad. If fact, in the right sort of scenario, it is really quite good. I use Super Takumar lenses and the images are very crisp and beautiful contrast. It is a wind up camera and definitely MOS, but given those parameters, it performs very well. I have not tried it yet, but I heard that you can do crude sort of speed ramping with the K-3. Anyone ever try this??


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#8 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 04:55 AM

I am thinking also about complementing it with an anamorphic adapter so I don't get the square-shaped 4:3 native to 16 mm. Any thought about this? Any suggestions? Thanks!


To experiment with anamorphic adapters and 16mm is interesting if you're a wide-screen-addict, crazy about scope. 16mm 2xanamorphic is 2.66 wide so it's kind of funny to be even wider than 35mm-scope.

It's nothing for fast uncomplicated shootings, you always have to mess around with focus on the lens and the adapter, you need a good mount for the adapter, doesn't work very well on zooms, needs more light etc... But you can get interesting results.

One of the advantages is as well a disadvantage, with anamorphic you use longer lenses, hence less DOF. BUT with the double focus issue(lens and adapter) hard to handle, impossible to pull during a scene. Or get the iscomorphot that needs only to focus on the adapter, hard to find and expensive...

Here another one shot on DoubleX with a Kowa16H and some really crappy SLR-lenses via c-mount on a NPR with registrationproblems, AND a crappy telecine. But I like it.

http://www.swoonies.com/lonesome/

click videos or photogrammes

cheers, Bernhard

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 27 May 2007 - 04:56 AM.

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#9 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 05:23 AM

Ah, and I don't think that anamorphic adapters on 16mm are an alternative to Super16. It's more like following a passion for scope and trying to do it like the big boys do it on 35mm. In the end you might even have less quality than cropping Super16 or even 16, but it's real scope! If 1.85 or 16/9 is wide enough for you, then go S16 or Regular16 and cropp.
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#10 Don Brown

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:36 AM

[quote name='Tim Carroll' date='May 27 2007, 01:21 AM' post='175081']
Or, better yet, just get an Arriflex 16S and tape off the viewfinder for 16:9 like pictured below. Then shoot your film and have your telecine operator frame for 16:9 and transfer the footage anamorphic to tape.


Hi Tim
It's a long time since I looked though a Arri 16S, does it have the light baffles that the Arri IIC had which was a pain for Video Assist cameras.


Regards

Don

PS Love your Web site


The Original Boston UK
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:30 AM

Hi Tim
It's a long time since I looked though a Arri 16S, does it have the light baffles that the Arri IIC had which was a pain for Video Assist cameras.


Don,

Nope, no baffles. What you see is what you get. The older models, like the one pictured above, don't have the brightest ground glass. The later models, the ones with the interchangeable ground glass, can have an ARRI fibre optics screen installed, and then it is as bright and clear as an Arriflex 16SR.

-Tim
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#12 Don Brown

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:46 AM

[quote name='Tim Carroll' date='May 27 2007, 02:30 PM' post='175159']
Don,

Nope, no baffles. What you see is what you get. The older models, like the one pictured above, don't have the brightest ground glass. The later models, the ones with the interchangeable ground glass, can have an ARRI fibre optics screen installed, and then it is as bright and clear as an Arriflex 16SR.

Hi Tim
Thanks for that. I have a CP16R which has fibre optics which is lovely and bright and a Beaulieu R16 Auto that is bright but my early R16 and my Bolex RX 5 are a bit dark.
Yes I would love a modern Arri S, have you managed to put assist on any of you Arri's

Regards

Don
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#13 Keneu Luca

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:51 AM

After going through all the trouble, I can say, yes, it is not very practical shooting 16mm anamorphic.

However, when shooting reversal and projecting the film in your home, anamorphic looks AMAZING. And when I watch my anamorphic footage as it stretches across my wall, I am reminded why film is so beautiful. People who only shoot video are not experiencing this.


My 16mm anamorphic experiment.

info & images posted here on this website:
http://www.cinematog...n...=19350&st=0

video posted on youtube:

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#14 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:13 PM

Hi Tim
Thanks for that. I have a CP16R which has fibre optics which is lovely and bright and a Beaulieu R16 Auto that is bright but my early R16 and my Bolex RX 5 are a bit dark.
Yes I would love a modern Arri S, have you managed to put assist on any of you Arri's

Regards

Don


Don,

Not put a video assist on an Arri S, but others have. Usually it is a small video camera attached in place of the eyepiece. Not a great solution if you ask me. Visual Products makes some kind of assist that goes on an Arriflex in place of the APEC unit on the 16SR and SRII, so maybe that would work on one of the few Arriflex 16S cameras that came with an APEC door.

-Tim
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#15 Will Montgomery

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 02:02 PM

Here's another option... probably out of your price range, but anamorphic lenses can get expensive...

2-Perf 35mm. These guys in Austrailia could probably rig you a cheap 35mm system for under $3500 in 2-perf.

http://www.multivision235.com.au/

Since you're in 2-perf (rather than standard 4-perf 35mm) your film, processing and transfer costs will be about the same as 16mm and you wind up with 2.35:1 without anamorphic lenses.
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#16 Antonio Bunt

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 01:36 PM

Yes, 2-perf is an option but still out of price range. I was supposed to fram 16 like 16:9 on the viewfinder, I thought it was a waste of raw stock but I guess that's the only answer, do you have any measures on height to frame with the tape? Thanks!
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#17 Tim Carroll

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

Yes, 2-perf is an option but still out of price range. I was supposed to fram 16 like 16:9 on the viewfinder, I thought it was a waste of raw stock but I guess that's the only answer, do you have any measures on height to frame with the tape? Thanks!


If you are talking about doing it on an Arriflex 16S like I demonstrated above, there are no "measures" or measurements, you do it optically as you look through the ground glass with the camera pointed at a 16:9 source.

As far as how others do this on other cameras, I am not sure.

-Tim
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