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Beaulieu R16 + Anamorphic lens = ?


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#1 Aaron Hultin

Aaron Hultin
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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:26 PM

Hey everyone, I have a number of questions about anamorphic lenses and the Beaulieu R16 Automatic. I currently own the camera, but to date have only shot in the standard 4:3 ratio. I have been successful with shooting sync-sound, as the one I own runs exceptionally smoothly, and is rock steady at 24 fps. It had been great for creating some beautiful images, and I would like to try something new if possible.

My first question, and most important:

Does the Beaulieu R16 Automatic accept anamorphic C-Mount lenses?

I have been looking into this, and as far as I can tell, the answer is ... undecided. I read a post in a different forum from someone who said they had used an anamorphic lens with their R16, and had good results. But then, in other posts - I read that this is impossible. I am unable to determine the true answer for this question to date.

From what I have read, 16mm cameras that can accept anamorphic lenses will squeeze the image so that when projected, it is at a 2:66:1 ratio. Then, with some cropping/masking of the sides, one could end up with 2:35:1 ratio. Am I understanding this correctly? Does this apply to the Beaulieu R16 Automatic?

I have read a fair bit about this topic, and from the limited information I can come up with, it does not seem possible to use an anamorphic lens on a Beaulieu R16. Therefore, if you wanted to utilize the 2:35:1 ratio, rather than 4:3, you could frame your shots as such, and then simply mask the top and bottom during projection to come up with a "false" 2:35:1 image. The reason I refer to it as "false" is because it would not really be as wide as if you shot your footage using an anamorphic lens, would it?

I have included this diagram, to illustrate what I mean:

Posted Image

If you shoot with an anamorphic lens, are you getting a 'wider' image?

Notice the first diagram. There is far more picture to the left and right of the subject's face, than there is in the bottom diagram.

The bottom diagram represents the "false" 2:35:1 that I am talking about. It is really just 4:3, but masked during projection. The major difference of course being that the image is not as wide, and does not include as much picture to the left and right of the subjects face.

Is this diagram accurate in terms of how an anamorphic 16mm lens would capture and image, and then be projected versus using a standard lens with framing for 2:35:1 aspect ratio?

This is my first [essay] post by the way, I hope to learn from, and contribute to, this forum.

Thanks
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#2 Scot McPhie

Scot McPhie
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 06:30 AM

Hey everyone, I have a number of questions about anamorphic lenses and the Beaulieu R16 Automatic. I currently own the camera, but to date have only shot in the standard 4:3 ratio. I have been successful with shooting sync-sound, as the one I own runs exceptionally smoothly, and is rock steady at 24 fps. It had been great for creating some beautiful images, and I would like to try something new if possible.

My first question, and most important:

Does the Beaulieu R16 Automatic accept anamorphic C-Mount lenses?

I have been looking into this, and as far as I can tell, the answer is ... undecided. I read a post in a different forum from someone who said they had used an anamorphic lens with their R16, and had good results. But then, in other posts - I read that this is impossible. I am unable to determine the true answer for this question to date.

From what I have read, 16mm cameras that can accept anamorphic lenses will squeeze the image so that when projected, it is at a 2:66:1 ratio. Then, with some cropping/masking of the sides, one could end up with 2:35:1 ratio. Am I understanding this correctly? Does this apply to the Beaulieu R16 Automatic?

I have read a fair bit about this topic, and from the limited information I can come up with, it does not seem possible to use an anamorphic lens on a Beaulieu R16. Therefore, if you wanted to utilize the 2:35:1 ratio, rather than 4:3, you could frame your shots as such, and then simply mask the top and bottom during projection to come up with a "false" 2:35:1 image. The reason I refer to it as "false" is because it would not really be as wide as if you shot your footage using an anamorphic lens, would it?

I have included this diagram, to illustrate what I mean:

Posted Image

If you shoot with an anamorphic lens, are you getting a 'wider' image?

Notice the first diagram. There is far more picture to the left and right of the subject's face, than there is in the bottom diagram.

The bottom diagram represents the "false" 2:35:1 that I am talking about. It is really just 4:3, but masked during projection. The major difference of course being that the image is not as wide, and does not include as much picture to the left and right of the subjects face.

Is this diagram accurate in terms of how an anamorphic 16mm lens would capture and image, and then be projected versus using a standard lens with framing for 2:35:1 aspect ratio?

This is my first [essay] post by the way, I hope to learn from, and contribute to, this forum.

Thanks


Hi Aaron - I own an R16 and have looked into this a bit myself - I'm not an expert though - but I'l tell you what I know.

First of all it's definitely possible to use the R16 with an anamorphic lense, however you can't put it straight into the c-mount - it will have to go in front of your prime or zoom via some kind of bracket and support. The anamorphic lense itself won't have a diaghram so can't be used by itself - and I imagine wouldn't focus on the film plane anyway (?)

When properly mounted it still won't be as sharp as Super 16, but done properly it will be acceptable, and anyone who says otherwise is being anal about it.

Anamorphic lenses come in different compression rates - most common is 2x and you can get 1.5x You'd need a 1.7625x lense to make it a nice 2.35:1 - I don't think there's one of them, so you'd have to crop or letterbox as you say.

The method I'm looking at at the moment is using the 16:9 anamorphic lense that Panasonic make for the dvx100 and puting that on the front of my Angeniux 10-120 zoom (72mm thread) - and if desired I could letterbox it a bit more to make it a 2.35:1 ratio.

There are a few things to watch out for using anamorphic lenses though - theres a good description of them here:
http://www.cinematog...orphicEntry.htm

Good luck and have fun :-)

Scot
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#3 Aaron Hultin

Aaron Hultin
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Posted 28 May 2007 - 06:05 PM

Hey Scot thanks a lot for the information. I love shooting with my Beaulieu and hope to do more with it.
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Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

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FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

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Visual Products

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Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Technodolly