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#1 Natalie Saito

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 10:34 PM

the hvx200 records only on p2 cards..which I personally dislike. not only are they expensive as hell but they're like film negatives..you only got 1 copy of the original footage (unlike tapes). which is the best "consumer HD" camera (<10 grand) that uses tapes? what are all your opinions on the different brands (sony, panasonic, canon...etc)?

thanks for reading! -Natalie
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 10:49 PM

They aren't like film negatives because the point is to dump the material off of the cards into a hard drive, sort of like using memory cards in your digital still camera -- you aren't just using those once and leaving the photos on the cards there either. They are expensive but reusable, whereas tape is cheap but generally used once. Of course, a $2000 P2 card buys you an awful lot of tape...

The HVX200 also records DVCPRO HD, not HDV. Some would say that's a slightly better recording format, though the camera itself determines a lot of the image quality, maybe more than the recording format.

Skipping the Panasonic HVX200, the high-end prosumer HDV cameras are the Canons, particularly the XLH1, and the JVC cameras. They have different features and designs. For example, do you need interchangeable lenses?

Some HDV cameras record primarily to 720P and others to 1080i. Some do both. Some do 24P, and some record 24P to 1080i with a pulldown.
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#3 Natalie Saito

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:11 PM

They aren't like film negatives because the point is to dump the material off of the cards into a hard drive, sort of like using memory cards in your digital still camera -- you aren't just using those once and leaving the photos on the cards there either. They are expensive but reusable, whereas tape is cheap but generally used once. Of course, a $2000 P2 card buys you an awful lot of tape...

The HVX200 also records DVCPRO HD, not HDV. Some would say that's a slightly better recording format, though the camera itself determines a lot of the image quality, maybe more than the recording format.

Skipping the Panasonic HVX200, the high-end prosumer HDV cameras are the Canons, particularly the XLH1, and the JVC cameras. They have different features and designs. For example, do you need interchangeable lenses?

Some HDV cameras record primarily to 720P and others to 1080i. Some do both. Some do 24P, and some record 24P to 1080i with a pulldown.



oh okay...thanks David! i read panasonic claims that it has "dvcpro hd quality." i think that is what confused me. i also forgot to mention that i've read hvx200 doesn't have an interchangeable lens...it has a fixed zoom? i've heard on xlh1 you can use 35mm still camera lenses?? please correct me if im wrong.

Edited by NSaito, 02 June 2007 - 11:14 PM.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:22 PM

A 35mm still camera lens mounted directly to a 1/3" camera would be very telephoto... Remember that a wide-angle shot on a 1/3" camera is around the 4mm focal length range.

None of the Sony or Panasonic prosumer HD cameras allow interchangeable lenses - that's only the Canon XLH1 and the JVC ProHD cameras.

Take a look here at the JVC line:
http://pro.jvc.com/p...camcorders.html

They do also sell a PL-mount adaptor, but you'd want to use 16mm lenses on it, and you'd still find youself lacking wide-enough focal lengths for 1/3" photography.

With the Canon XLH1, you could put Canon 35mm still camera lenses on it, but like I said, the focal lengths are all too long.

It's not like using an adaptor where the 35mm lens image is projected onto a groundglass, retaining 35mm depth of field and field of view, as with the P+S Technik Mini-35, or other adaptors like Movietube, Letus, M2, etc.
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#5 Greg Johnson

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:10 AM

The HVX200 also records DVCPRO HD, not HDV. Some would say that's a slightly better recording format, though the camera itself determines a lot of the image quality, maybe more than the recording format.


DVCPPRO is slightly better? I think it's way better.

I thought HDV's bandwidth was 25MBS vs. DVCPRO HD at 100 MBS. Not to mention HDV is a MPEG 2 GOP structure right? (I'm not a fan of MPEG for source footage.)

For what I usually shoot, I prefer the DVCPRO HD codec hands down. HDV doesn't handle fast motion well, and it has a very limited color space.

That's my experience anyway. I guess it really depends on what you're shooting, and what your circumstances are.

- Greg

Edited by Greg Johnson, 03 June 2007 - 01:12 AM.

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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:29 AM

DVCPRO-HD is 100 Mb/sec for 60P/720 -- so it's something like 40 Mb/sec for 24P material. Still better than HDV's 25 Mb/sec, and it's 4:2:2 instead of 4:1:1, but like I was saying, the quality of the camera's imagemaking may counteract the differences in the recording format.
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#7 Greg Johnson

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:49 AM

Ahh, gotcha.

I guess it just boils down to what you're going to use it for. I like to do a lot in post with my images, and DVCPRO allows me more room to play, especially with green screen work, so I guess that's why I'm a fan.

I really didn't care for HDV, I almost preferred shooting normal DV over HDV for some of the action stuff I was doing a year ago. I'd have some shots of guys in ghillie suits (bushrag camo) sniping out of a bunch of leaves, and if it all was moving in the wind I'd get some gnarly artifacts.

I also HATED the simulated "cineframe" 24P on the Z1U. That was a nightmare for the web content I was doing. I love my little HVX-200's.

On a related note, I did the math today: After a year's worth of shooting on the HVX-200,.. I've almost reached the same amount of what it would cost to shoot on all DV tapes as what it cost to buy my one P2 card for the last year. Granted that doesn't include hard drive backup since I don't have a tape archive.

I just saw they now have 32GB P2 cards,.. if they cost less than my new car then wow,.. those will be sweet.




- Greg
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The Slider

Glidecam

Rig Wheels Passport

Technodolly