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hand crank 35mm camera?


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#1 Christophe Collette

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 07:19 PM

Hi, I want to rent an old 35mm camera, hand cranked one if possible, for a music video... Does anyone have an idea where I could find one??? Thinking of Mark Romanek Closer NIN video... The director I work with wants an early 20th century feel. We want something trashy, irregular, well, like old BW movies and we'd like to have that look pretty much straight out of the camera, without excessive post-production...

Any ideas, leads???

Thanks a lot!

C
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#2 Nate Downes

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Posted 23 June 2007 - 08:20 PM

Hi, I want to rent an old 35mm camera, hand cranked one if possible, for a music video... Does anyone have an idea where I could find one??? Thinking of Mark Romanek Closer NIN video... The director I work with wants an early 20th century feel. We want something trashy, irregular, well, like old BW movies and we'd like to have that look pretty much straight out of the camera, without excessive post-production...

Any ideas, leads???

Thanks a lot!

C


Yes, I own 2.
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 04:10 AM

Hi, I want to rent an old 35mm camera, hand cranked one if possible, for a music video... Does anyone have an idea where I could find one??? Thinking of Mark Romanek Closer NIN video... The director I work with wants an early 20th century feel. We want something trashy, irregular, well, like old BW movies and we'd like to have that look pretty much straight out of the camera, without excessive post-production...

Any ideas, leads???

Thanks a lot!

C


Hi,

Using a hand cranked camera won't actually give you a trashy irregular feel, unless you process the film by hand!

Stephen
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#4 Matthew Buick

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 06:34 PM

Early 20th Century film would have been shot on Orthochromatic Stock, or Panchromatic Stocks with lower red sensitivity that modern ones.

Here's a company that still manufactures Orthochromatic Film:

MACO Orthocromatic Stock
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#5 Christophe Collette

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 09:07 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the help, Nate, do you rent your cameras? What would you say about using such cameras? About orthochromatic stocks, well, I was wondering if I could achieve a early cinema years look on transfert, shooting BW, but not ortho film. I watched the Good German yesterday, the cinematography is really good, any ideas how they got that look? The look I would like to achieve is something like old Chapman movies... The concept for the video is a photo studio from the early age of photography, the singer will be this aristocrat, gentleman photographer. I plan on using magnesium flash, any of you know where I could buy those bulbs?? I have the flash, just don't have the bulbs... But I think historically wise that those bulbs did not even exist in those times, they were using powder... Any leads on that???
Thanks!


C
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#6 Nate Downes

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 09:41 PM

Hmm, it's available w/o perfs... anyone have a perfing machine? 8)

For the right project I would make my cameras available, but the thing is they're custom jobs, so you'd pretty much be renting me in order to really make them useful to you. They're not exactly easy to work with, but I love the challenge.

Edited by Nate Downes, 24 June 2007 - 09:43 PM.

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#7 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:20 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the help, Nate, do you rent your cameras? What would you say about using such cameras? About orthochromatic stocks, well, I was wondering if I could achieve a early cinema years look on transfert, shooting BW, but not ortho film. I watched the Good German yesterday, the cinematography is really good, any ideas how they got that look? The look I would like to achieve is something like old Chapman movies... The concept for the video is a photo studio from the early age of photography, the singer will be this aristocrat, gentleman photographer. I plan on using magnesium flash, any of you know where I could buy those bulbs?? I have the flash, just don't have the bulbs... But I think historically wise that those bulbs did not even exist in those times, they were using powder... Any leads on that???
Thanks!
C


Flash powder's fairly availble as magicians still use it. I think Skylighter.com has it in stock, 'coarse there's a hazardous shipping charge and you'll probably have to get your class 2 pyro licence before they'll ship to you, neither one of which is that hard to do, a class 2 licence (I THINK it's called a class 2, I'm not sure, it's on their website) I think is like 200 bucks and you have to take a class or 2 from your local fire department. then the hazzardous shipping is like 20 or 50 bucks extra, then of coarse you'll need permits and PROBABLY have to have a guy with a fire extingisher standing by, but it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 24 June 2007 - 11:21 PM.

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#8 Christophe Collette

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:32 PM

Well, I think I might order through an sfx shop in Montreal, they probably have their licence. Thanks Nate for offering, but I think flying you to Montreal for the project would be too expensive! We have 20 000$ for the project. It's not much....

But maybe if you showed me some footage shot with the camera, I could sell it to the prod.

C
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#9 Chris Keth

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 05:21 PM

No need to get specific stock. Just filter regular B&W stock with a blue filter.
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#10 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:13 PM

I watched the Good German yesterday, the cinematography is really good, any ideas how they got that look?
Thanks!
C

One of the factors in the look was the lenses. They used old lenses. Forgive me, but I can't remember which ones. I think it's listed in an AC article, or maybe an ICG article.
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#11 Chris Keth

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 06:54 PM

One of the factors in the look was the lenses. They used old lenses. Forgive me, but I can't remember which ones. I think it's listed in an AC article, or maybe an ICG article.


Probably any uncoated lenses would be a good substitute, right?
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#12 timHealy

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Posted 25 June 2007 - 11:14 PM

Hi, I want to rent an old 35mm camera, hand cranked one if possible, for a music video... Does anyone have an idea where I could find one??? Thinking of Mark Romanek Closer NIN video... The director I work with wants an early 20th century feel. We want something trashy, irregular, well, like old BW movies and we'd like to have that look pretty much straight out of the camera, without excessive post-production...

Any ideas, leads???

Thanks a lot!

C


this guy has them. don't know if he rents

http://www.samdodge.com/gallery.htm

best

Tim
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#13 Nate Downes

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 06:47 AM

Well, I think I might order through an sfx shop in Montreal, they probably have their licence. Thanks Nate for offering, but I think flying you to Montreal for the project would be too expensive! We have 20 000$ for the project. It's not much....

But maybe if you showed me some footage shot with the camera, I could sell it to the prod.

C


To Montreal? Are you kidding? That's not expensive. I've priced out flights to Canada before and it never cost that much. Then again, I'm good at finding deals.

I'll be shooting a trailer with them shortly, I'll send you the footage once I get it back from the lab, alright?
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#14 Nate Downes

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 06:48 AM

this guy has them. don't know if he rents

http://www.samdodge.com/gallery.htm

best

Tim

I know Sam, he does not rent, he sells. Cheapest one I've seen so far was for $3,000.
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#15 John Sprung

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 12:35 PM

Hi, I want to rent an old 35mm camera, hand cranked one if possible,

Probably the easiest thing to find will be a Bell & Howell Eyemo. The spring drive had a limited run time, so they have a small hand crank that works through the same coupling as the electric motor accessory. It's 8 frames per turn, just like most early cameras. To get some irregularity, set the governor to 48 or whatever the highest frame rate is, so it won't try to help you. The lever arm of the Eyemo crank is short, under 2" IIRC, so it's harder to turn and to get constant speed by hand. But it should be quite easy to make up a better one.

I also have an Ensign Cinematograph (circa 1895 - 1910). Its crank is more like 5-6", but no governor or flywheel. The test I shot on it, alas, doesn't look much different than what you'd get from a Panaflex or Arri. The lens is a 47 mm Cooke from the late 1920's. Hand cranking is a good idea to get the wobbly frame rate you want, but the rest of the image degradation might be better done in post.



-- J.S.
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#16 Nate Downes

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 12:40 PM

I also have an Ensign Cinematograph (circa 1895 - 1910). Its crank is more like 5-6", but no governor or flywheel. The test I shot on it, alas, doesn't look much different than what you'd get from a Panaflex or Arri. The lens is a 47 mm Cooke from the late 1920's. Hand cranking is a good idea to get the wobbly frame rate you want, but the rest of the image degradation might be better done in post.
-- J.S.

Oh wow, beautiful machine! Always wanted to try one.

My hand-cranks are DeVry's which I built the crank for. Same 8-shots per-revolution as every other hand crank I've run across however, but they're fun to work with.
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#17 Bryan Darling

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 01:30 PM

I've got a nice Cine Kodak Model A. It was the first motion picture camera Kodak produced. It was made to coincide with the release of 16mm film. Here is a link with more info and pictures of the camera. I'm not sure if 16mm would fit your needs, but if you are interested let me know.

Cine Kodak Model A info
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#18 John Sprung

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 02:01 PM

Oh wow, beautiful machine! Always wanted to try one.

OK -- If you're going to be in LA and have some spare time, let me know. Save up some short ends of 180 ft or less. There's only one set of the little wooden cores, so it takes quite a bit of bag time....


-- J.S.
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#19 Nate Downes

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 07:31 PM

OK -- If you're going to be in LA and have some spare time, let me know. Save up some short ends of 180 ft or less. There's only one set of the little wooden cores, so it takes quite a bit of bag time....
-- J.S.


Will do guy, will do!
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#20 Joe Taylor

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 09:28 PM

I have a 35mm Debrie I purchased from Sam Dodge. I shoot lots of color stock through it.

The benefits of using an authentic/vintage handcranked cine camera is that the movement, although a beautiful to behold, does not have the registration perfection of most modern cameras that have been adapted for handcranked work. True HC cameras will give you the sometimes flickering sensation that is you simply don't get with an Arri.

Another and most important are the century old lens'. Nothing can replicate that look. With color stock you get an almost pastel look that really blows my mind even after six years of shooting.

I'm on loation now or I'd attach some stills that are worthy to hang (They do!!!)
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