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LOW KEY - Lantern


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#1 janusz sikora

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 04:31 PM

As they enter from the outside.
Ambiance (-3)
Key (+1)

PDVD_192a.jpg
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#2 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 10:23 PM

From your previous post, it seems you ARE going for the "TV studio" look for these setups...am I understanding you correctly? Because they certainly do feel studio-ish.

But still, very nice. I think it would have been even better had the main source been faked a bit, so it seems as if the main source is coming from the lamp itself.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:17 PM

Here are some lantern shots I collected for research:

Posted Image

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They all use an electric bulb, either in place of the flame in a frosted lantern, or hidden behind the flame, or in the final example from "The Elephant Man", an off-camera light, which is the more classic way of faking a lantern effect.
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#4 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 June 2007 - 11:36 PM

Whenever I think of "Snow Falling on Cedars" I think of that first shot with the lantern being tied to the mast. Not enough can be said about the lighting in that film.
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#5 janusz sikora

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 02:08 AM

From your previous post, it seems you ARE going for the "TV studio" look for these setups...am I understanding you correctly? Because they certainly do feel studio-ish.

But still, very nice. I think it would have been even better had the main source been faked a bit, so it seems as if the main source is coming from the lamp itself.


The location was natural apartment. I used the word "TV" in reference to - in my opinion- importance of lighting the subject from all sides in Low Key situation as to not lose the separation from dark backgrounds.
Lantern's motivated source was the Off Cam Light that moved with actors through their Block. Well... this sure was the idea of having it simulate the lantern.
In terms of value of the highlight i tend to exaggerate a bit believing that simulating reality is not very ineresting. I like little "spice"... Its got to be little bit like Italian Opera... I like to have fun.
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#6 David Regan

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 08:53 PM

Posted Image

They all use an electric bulb, either in place of the flame in a frosted lantern, or hidden behind the flame, or in the final example from "The Elephant Man", an off-camera light, which is the more classic way of faking a lantern effect.


When using an off camera light like this, do they simulate the movement of the latern by moving the off camera lights correspondingly? It seems if you didn't the illusion would be lost, and having to do so would be a hassle.
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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:08 PM

Watch that sequence in "The Elephant Man" or a similar sequence with a candle in Deborah Kerr's hands as she moves through the house in "The Innocents" (also shot by Freddie Francis). You'll see a real choreography of moving lights on dimmers.
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#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 02:38 AM

A past cinematography teacher showed me that exact same example once, before giving us an assignment of simulating lanterns & candles.
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#9 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 07:04 AM

If I were lighting a lantern scene I would probably place a three wick candle in the lantern with some tin foil or other kind of reflective surface inside in an attempt to blow out the lantern and direct the light onto a reflector pointing back towards the actor.

Would that actually work?
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:47 AM

If I were lighting a lantern scene I would probably place a three wick candle in the lantern with some tin foil or other kind of reflective surface inside in an attempt to blow out the lantern and direct the light onto a reflector pointing back towards the actor.

Would that actually work?


Well, when the actor pointed the candle flames at their face, then the candles would be blocked from the camera's view by the tinfoil. Is that what you want to see? Or would you rather see the candle flames? If the view of the flames are blocked to the camera, you might as well use an electric bulb in there.

The trouble is also that the actor moves the lantern around, so it's hard to hide one side of it always.
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#11 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:36 AM

I would have been aiming for a blown out lamp, but with a flame glowing in the middle. I would have also hoped that the intensity of the light would help to disguise the refelctor in the lantern.
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#12 Matthew Buick

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:41 AM

EDIT: I suppose I would just request an old North East England miner's lamp, they differ in the fact that light only comes from a small glass window on one side. Then I could line the inside with foil and it would blow out rather nicely. :)
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#13 janusz sikora

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:51 AM

If I were lighting a lantern scene I would probably place a three wick candle in the lantern with some tin foil or other kind of reflective surface inside in an attempt to blow out the lantern and direct the light onto a reflector pointing back towards the actor.

Would that actually work?


The "problem" with Candle is that it simply is not enough light at 1/48 sec exposure. For cinematic effect it is good to have highlight on the face to be at Zone at least IV.... this you might get with candle being One Foot Away... Awkward on actor's movement...
Then ... it falls off so quickly that you get hardly anything else... except the small highlight area and no rest of the Face.
ASA 500 will not help you either. Its about Light.
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#14 Chayse Irvin

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 02:56 PM

Your style reminds me of a DP named Attila Szalay.

As they enter from the outside.
Ambiance (-3)
Key (+1)

PDVD_192a.jpg


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#15 Chris Keth

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:01 PM

The "problem" with Candle is that it simply is not enough light at 1/48 sec exposure. For cinematic effect it is good to have highlight on the face to be at Zone at least IV.... this you might get with candle being One Foot Away... Awkward on actor's movement...
Then ... it falls off so quickly that you get hardly anything else... except the small highlight area and no rest of the Face.
ASA 500 will not help you either. Its about Light.


Kubrick did it at ASA 200 (100 pushed a stop) and F0.7 so we should be able to do it with fast lenses on 500 speed stock. I bet 5229 would do it beautifully.

There's no reason white skintone HAS to be around zone six, either. I see lots of times in real life where it's much darker and I don't doubt reality. You're very classical-studio-inluenced aren't you? ;)
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#16 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:46 PM

You can see in those frames from "Days of Heaven" and "Snow Falling on Cedars" that the faces are underexposed realistically.
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#17 janusz sikora

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 11:59 PM

Kubrick did it at ASA 200 (100 pushed a stop) and F0.7 so we should be able to do it with fast lenses on 500 speed stock. I bet 5229 would do it beautifully.

There's no reason white skintone HAS to be around zone six, either. I see lots of times in real life where it's much darker and I don't doubt reality. You're very classical-studio-inluenced aren't you? ;)


Of course... I agree.
I guess it comes down to one's personal style (?)
No radical statements within our realm of interests.
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#18 Natalie Saito

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:55 AM

how about motivated light on a subject from a hanging incandescent (house) light..like a bulb? would a pepper or 650w tungsten with 250 or 251 diffusion be sufficient? I also have moonlight from the windows...the tough part is that the room has vertical blinds. there is an outside patio where the lights would be. i can angle them because the patio is quite long..longer than the window so i guess i can cheat them out of the shot. not sure it'll look authentic spaced fairly far apart. what are your thought? curtains seem ideal as natural diffusers. thanks for reading! Natalie
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#19 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 02:28 AM

ASA 500 will not help you either.


I tend to disagree...but OK

Also, might I ad that it's mighty important that the color temperature of your actor's light match the color of light that the lantern itself is emitting. The still you provided has a very yellow flame with a very white key light on your actors.

And what's with "It's About Light" being written in almost every other post you write (besides your signature bearing a link to your website.) Is that just a plug for your workshops? Or more of a slogan?
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#20 janusz sikora

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 06:43 PM

I tend to disagree...but OK

Also, might I ad that it's mighty important that the color temperature of your actor's light match the color of light that the lantern itself is emitting. The still you provided has a very yellow flame with a very white key light on your actors.

And what's with "It's About Light" being written in almost every other post you write (besides your signature bearing a link to your website.) Is that just a plug for your workshops? Or more of a slogan?


... and the link is out... i didn't think much about it nor its ethical infridgement... thank you and my apologies.
"Its about Light" is just a slogan I like.
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