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16mm Cooke Kinetal Lens to Super 16mm


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#1 sinisa.kukic

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 08:01 PM

Hi. Can 16mm Cooke Kinetal lenses be converted to cover Super 16mm?

Thanks.
Sinisa Kukic
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#2 lluis

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 01:29 AM

All Cooke Kinetals lenses will cover the super 16 format. Except the 9mm one.
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#3 sinisa.kukic

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 12:53 PM

thank you.
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#4 sinisa.kukic

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 02:08 PM

what's a set of cooke 16mm primes in good condition worth?

Edited by sinisa.kukic, 10 July 2007 - 02:08 PM.

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#5 Mike Rizos

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 09:32 PM

I've seen them for around $250-300 each at equipment dealers a little more for the 9.
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#6 kevin jackman

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:43 AM

ive heard the kinetals are decent lenses but not the sharpest around, anybody have an idea of the image quality they put out?
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#7 Tim Carroll

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:23 PM

You can see some clips of the Kinetals at the Arri16S.com web site. Here is a link to the site.

Arri16S.com

Go to the "Camera Performance: Film Clips" link and then scroll down through the clips and pick out the Kinetal ones. There are clips of the 12.5, 17.5 and 25, at T4 and T2(wide open). I personally love the look of the Kinetals, and used them on my Aaton LTR for Super 16 with no problems. I find them, "snappy", sharp and crisp.

Hope that helps,
-Tim
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#8 sinisa.kukic

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 01:31 AM

Thanks for the clips Tim. I just saw a set go for $560. should of snapped them up.

Edited by sinisa.kukic, 17 July 2007 - 01:32 AM.

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#9 andres victorero

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 04:38 PM

Someone knows if the cooke (except 9mm) covers 35mm ?
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#10 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 12:15 PM

Someone knows if the cooke (except 9mm) covers 35mm ?


Just heard from Guy at ZGC and to the best of anyone's knowledge there, the 17.5mm, 25mm and 50mm Cooke Kinetal lenses will cover the Academy 35mm frame, but possibly not the 35mm full frame. The 12.5mm might or might not cover the Academy 35mm frame. They were not sure.

-Tim
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#11 Mike Rizos

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:46 PM

Hi.
I don't know Tim, it seems to me someone at ZGC got things a little confused between the Kinetals and Speed Panchros. The Kinetals were made for 16mm, and I don't see how any of them under 25mm, will come even close to covering academy. The 50 and 75 might, but that's about it. Cooke made the Speed Panchros for 35mm, some of them of the same focal length as Kinetals.
The Speed Panchros of the same vintage, were made to cover just about the silent aperture(.723x.980), with the widest being 18mm. These are bigger lenses.
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#12 Tim Carroll

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 12:23 AM

Hi.
I don't know Tim, it seems to me someone at ZGC got things a little confused between the Kinetals and Speed Panchros. The Kinetals were made for 16mm, and I don't see how any of them under 25mm, will come even close to covering academy. The 50 and 75 might, but that's about it. Cooke made the Speed Panchros for 35mm, some of them of the same focal length as Kinetals.
The Speed Panchros of the same vintage, were made to cover just about the silent aperture(.723x.980), with the widest being 18mm. These are bigger lenses.


No, we were talking about both the Speed Panchros and the Kinetals. I know the Kinetals were made for 16mm, but from 12.5 up they also cover Super 16 very nicely. I was asking Guy how far they would go, and he said he did not know, but from what the "old timers" at the factory said, they would cover the Academy gate for 35mm, but maybe not as far down as the 12.5mm, maybe more like the 17.5mm on up. But he recommended that I test first. He also said they would not cover the full aperture for 35mm.

We were also discussing the Speed Panchros, so I know he was distinguishing between the two.

-Tim
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#13 Freya Black

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 03:24 AM

No, we were talking about both the Speed Panchros and the Kinetals. I know the Kinetals were made for 16mm, but from 12.5 up they also cover Super 16 very nicely. I was asking Guy how far they would go, and he said he did not know, but from what the "old timers" at the factory said, they would cover the Academy gate for 35mm, but maybe not as far down as the 12.5mm, maybe more like the 17.5mm on up. But he recommended that I test first. He also said they would not cover the full aperture for 35mm.

We were also discussing the Speed Panchros, so I know he was distinguishing between the two.

-Tim


I don't suppose you know how the ivotals compare with the kinetals? I have a set of cooke lenses in c mount (woooo!) I have the ivotal in both 25mm and 50mm. I think the others are telekinic lenses but I don't remember off the top of my head.

love

Freya
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#14 Tim Carroll

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 08:55 AM

Finally got a chance to test the Cooke Kinetal 12.5, 17.5 and 25mm lenses on an Arriflex 35mm IIC, and they won't even fit. They go too deep and won't clear the camera mirror. I always thought the IIA, IIB, and IIC had the same lens clearance as the Arriflex 16S and 16M cameras, but I was obviously wrong.

It's a shame as those three lenses are brilliant in 16mm, would love to see them in 35. Guess I'm gonna have to find a set of Cooke Speed Panchro Series II or Series III lenses.

-Tim
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#15 Charlie Peich

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 11:26 AM

Finally got a chance to test the Cooke Kinetal 12.5, 17.5 and 25mm lenses on an Arriflex 35mm IIC, and they won't even fit. They go too deep and won't clear the camera mirror. I always thought the IIA, IIB, and IIC had the same lens clearance as the Arriflex 16S and 16M cameras, but I was obviously wrong.

It's a shame as those three lenses are brilliant in 16mm, would love to see them in 35. Guess I'm gonna have to find a set of Cooke Speed Panchro Series II or Series III lenses.

-Tim


Tim,
I believe the flange distance is the same for the Arri 16mm and 35mm cameras, it's the physical size of the mirror shutter that mucks things up. The lenses designed and optimized for 16mm have a rear element that usually sits closer to the film plane. Because the shutter is smaller and closer to the gate in the 16mm camera, this helps the design (said in very simple layman's explanation). Back in the day when these lenses and cameras where being designed, they were trying to keep everything as small as possible, 3 lenses on a turret etc., design the lens to fit existing cameras, lens design was different than today. The rear element on a 35mm designed lens has to be further from the film plane because the mirror is further away. Make sense?

Congratulations on your new Arri 35-2C camera. It's a great set-up you acquired! Now get that set of Master Primes and you're good to go! A fast a.c. will keep that 200ft mag loaded all the time.

I'm pulling some Arri paper together for you. I'll be in touch.
Charlie
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#16 Tim Carroll

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:42 PM

Tim,
I believe the flange distance is the same for the Arri 16mm and 35mm cameras, it's the physical size of the mirror shutter that mucks things up. The lenses designed and optimized for 16mm have a rear element that usually sits closer to the film plane. Because the shutter is smaller and closer to the gate in the 16mm camera, this helps the design (said in very simple layman's explanation). Back in the day when these lenses and cameras where being designed, they were trying to keep everything as small as possible, 3 lenses on a turret etc., design the lens to fit existing cameras, lens design was different than today. The rear element on a 35mm designed lens has to be further from the film plane because the mirror is further away. Make sense?

Congratulations on your new Arri 35-2C camera. It's a great set-up you acquired! Now get that set of Master Primes and you're good to go! A fast a.c. will keep that 200ft mag loaded all the time.

I'm pulling some Arri paper together for you. I'll be in touch.
Charlie


Charlie,

The FFD is 52mm on both, and you are right, the mirror sits further out on the 2C.

Need to pick up a couple of 400 ft "Arri 3" mags (the ones with the gear drive as opposed to the string drive(which the 200 ft mag that came with the camera has, and that doesn't work anymore(bummer))), maybe the Cinematography Electronics crystal motor, a good barney, and some glass.

We'll continue this discussion over on the 35mm forum. Looking forward to the Arri papers you're assembling.

Thanks Charlie,
-Tim
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#17 Steven Wyatt

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 12:42 PM

Can you gear Kinetal lenses for use with follow focus units?
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#18 Tim Carroll

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 03:01 PM

Can you gear Kinetal lenses for use with follow focus units?


You can put a set of follow focus gears on them, just keep in mind with the design of all those older small primes that were originally made for the Arriflex 16S cameras, the focus part of the lens is right next to the flange, so make sure your follow focus can get that close to the front of the camera.

By the way, I am selling my Kinetal prime lens set, the ones I used to make the footage on the web site, and the image below. The set includes the Cooke Kinetal 9mm (the focusing one), the 12.5mm, the 17.5mm and the 25mm (which was used for the image below). The four lenses are optically beautiful and have all been collimated.

You can see how the lenses perform practically wide open (at T:2.8) with the new Kodak Vision3 500T (7219) in a test I shot this past weekend. The links below will bring you to the short clips (Quicktime Required):

Cooke Kinetal 9mm

Cooke Kinetal 12.5mm

Cooke Kinetal 17.5mm

Cooke Kinetal 25mm


If anyone is interested in this prime lens set, you can email me at:

info@arri16s.com

Posted Image


Best,
-Tim
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#19 Ben

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 10:14 AM

20150912_093747_zpsnlszifym.jpg

 

 

 

20150912_101235_zpswr3aqlpw.jpg

 

 

I have a ex BBC film unit for sale dating begin 1960s.

 

Its a set of 7 Cooke Kinetal  150, 100, 75, 50, 37.5, 17.5, 9mm.

 

see link

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...12955467&_rdc=1


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#20 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 02:52 AM

You shouldn't double post, it causes confusion. This is an old thread, so your new one in the market makes more sense.


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