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#1 Arun Singaraju

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 12:45 PM

Hello,

Can someone suggest the best camera to use 35mm color film. Arri has a wide range but is way too expensive. Are there any other good cameras which can be used and can be rented.

Also, which film is the best for 35mm film shoots.

I am a director and have worked on 16mm till now. But now since am producing this movie, need to plan a lot on the costs.

TIA.
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#2 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 03:16 PM

Hi Arun,

That's a broad spectrum of questions I hope someone has the energy to give you there opinion.
In my opinion you've already excluded the best cameras!
And as for film, well! how long have you got? What was the BEST you shot on 16mm?

There are some extraordinary cinematographers on this forum look around, use the search function and be enlightened!

Good luck.

Kieran.
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#3 Arun Singaraju

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 03:26 PM

Hi Arun,

That's a broad spectrum of questions I hope someone has the energy to give you there opinion.
In my opinion you've already excluded the best cameras!
And as for film, well! how long have you got? What was the BEST you shot on 16mm?

There are some extraordinary cinematographers on this forum look around, use the search function and be enlightened!

Good luck.

Kieran.



Hello Kieran, thanks for the response. Arri is ok too, but cant figure out which one to use. There are so many different kinds. But for startup guys, what camera do most people use.

Planning on a 100-110 min film.
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#4 Matthew Buick

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 03:59 PM

The ARRI 2C seems to be quite popular among indie 35mm users.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 04:01 PM

Limiting the discussion to sync-sound cameras, it sort of breaks down this way:

Most expensive / newest:
Arricam ST
Arricam LT
Panaflex Millenium, Millenium XL & XL2

Moderate price to rent:
Moviecam Compact
Panaflex Platinum
Arri 535, 535B
Aaton-35III
Moviecam SL

Cheaper to rent:
Panaflex Gold, GII
Arri Evolution, BL4S, BL4, BL3

Now some places may have some of these moderate cameras for rent at cheaper prices, like a Moviecam Compact. I'd say for the budget-challenged, the Moviecam Compact, then the Arri BL's and Panaflex Golds, GII, tend to be what they try and rent.

Aaton-35III and Moviecam SL are lightweight cameras intended for handheld / Steadicam and tend to be a little on the noisy side for sync-sound cameras.
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#6 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 04:10 PM

Theres also the Moviecam SuperAmerica, which some places still rent out.
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#7 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 04:12 PM

Arun.

There are no BEST cameras ! not even for" start up guys " I think you need to talk to your DP on this project tell him what the budget is
for camera, crew, film, etc. And work out with him or her what camera, stock, and lighting kit is BEST and affordable for your film.

Best of Luck!

Kieran.

OK! Arriflex 535A and B.
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#8 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 04:16 PM

Hi David!

How is your prep coming along?

Kieran.
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#9 Arun Singaraju

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 11:10 AM

Thanks guys. All your inputs are really helpful.

Here's an update from my DP. Planning to shoot on S 16 and then blow it up to 35 for work print.

Also, are there any cinematographers on this forum who would like to travel to India and help me out as a DP on this project. All the expenses being paid and a minimum pay.
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#10 John Sprung

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:45 PM

Planning to shoot on S 16 and then blow it up to 35 for work print.

Making a blow-up work print would be extremely expensive, and you'd have no way to trace your edge numbers. You'd be better off cutting a conventional contact workprint, or doing a dailies telecine and cutting on tape.



-- J.S.
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#11 Robert Hughes

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 08:55 PM

Before you drop a huge sum of cash on a camera, perhaps you could tell us a bit more about your project. What is it about? Tell us about casting, script, crew, production, scheduling, marketing, distribution, financing. Selecting what camera to use is about 20th down the list of priorities you need to concern yourself with.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 11 July 2007 - 08:58 PM.

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#12 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:30 AM

Thanks guys. All your inputs are really helpful.

Here's an update from my DP. Planning to shoot on S 16 and then blow it up to 35 for work print.

Also, are there any cinematographers on this forum who would like to travel to India and help me out as a DP on this project. All the expenses being paid and a minimum pay.


The idea with 35 mm print from Super 16 have a few bad sides.
You lost final resolution of image, will pay big money at postproduction and other.

Possible, the 3 perfortation ( 2 perforation ) cameras will good for you ? similar Arri 235 ?


...Travel to India with cine camera, lenses, accessories ..?
I think, this must be low weight camera, or you need rent of equipments at India.
I recommend you to draw attention on russian Konvas-2M, real reliable for extremal expedition.
[attachment=2374:K_2_lenshood_mini.jpg]


[attachment=2375:camera_1...ght_mini.jpg]
Konvas-2M the great camera for handheld shooting, for documentary shooting, have small size, weight, quick-changing a film magazines, crystal sync electrical motor and low price.
The special edition of Konvas-2M with Arri PL and can use of any lenses with Arri PL.
From other side, russian LOMO lenses popular now, because, to have high optical quality too.
I think, Konvas cameras - best camera for first shooting.

http://rus.625-net.r.../06/kinoapp.htm

( Sorry, this is russian text and my clumsy translation. ).

......In documentary cinema "Konvas" not only relieved and simplified functioning(working) the operator, especially, at reporting shooting. With him operator found original psychological confidence and liberty. The Camera as it were "was unfastened" from tripod and could turn out to be in lees of the event. One deal to remove the heavy camera or think about that to did not end the plant of the spring, and quite other - a light camera, always preparing to removal, which as required possible take out of hands, having hung on shoulder storage battery. "Konvas" in ìíîãîì has changed the nature of the scene in documentary cinema, it has found the additional speaker and peculiar "life breathing"......

[attachment=2376:kinoapp_02.jpg]

......In feature cinema light "Konvas" has opened new art- production possibilities, has allowed to shoot the actor's scene in real ambience, in complex and extreme condition that earlier was possible perform only multifunction removal. "Konvas" has allowed to carry in artistic cinema shooting acceptance, typical of cinema documentary, and amongst them such, as panning and escort of the actors by camera, which is found in hand of the operator. This, seamingly technical, acceptance, used at shooting of the reportings most often, becomes artistic. Exactly "Konvasom" with hands S. P. Urusevskiy has shot the most expressive episodes of the film "Fly the crane" and classical of them, open new chapter in developments of the plastic language cinema, - a send-off on front, when camera together with actor to bid farewell with its loved, "entrenches" drafty crowd......



.......The Appearance "Konvasa" in in many respects promoted shaping new art style, which started to name expressive-documentary. On change "balanced" compositions and unhurried motion came liberated moving the camera, expressive and constantly changing free composition. The Scene in frame seemed as it were "accidentally" âûõâà÷åííûì from life, has gained original "documenatry" style, but camera changed from watcher in participant of the event. The Achievements soviet cameramans schools in 60-e 80-e years in many respects are connected with creative use the expressivenesses, which has opened the manual camera. Who only from the known operator did not keep this camera in hand It is Necessary to notice that like art style turned out to be to be typical of cinema in USSR and France ("new wave") - a country, where were produced "Konvas" and "Cameflex". (The Arrangement "Arri-2C " did not allow so liberally to manoeuvre him at removal with hands).......


Any case, if you wish know more or need shoot of any test footages from Konvas and compare of quality of footages, you can ask me.
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#13 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:29 PM

[attachment=2376:kinoapp_02.jpg]

......In feature cinema light "Konvas" has opened new art- production possibilities, has allowed to shoot the actor's scene in real ambience, in complex and extreme condition that earlier was possible perform only multifunction removal. "Konvas" has allowed to carry in artistic cinema shooting acceptance, typical of cinema documentary, and amongst them such, as panning and escort of the actors by camera, which is found in hand of the operator. This, seamingly technical, acceptance, used at shooting of the reportings most often, becomes artistic. Exactly "Konvasom" with hands S. P. Urusevskiy has shot the most expressive episodes of the film "Fly the crane" and classical of them, open new chapter in developments of the plastic language cinema, - a send-off on front, when camera together with actor to bid farewell with its loved, "entrenches" drafty crowd......
.


What Olex was trying to say here is that Urusevskiy shot most of, if not all of "The Cranes are Flying" with an earlier model Konvas KSR-1,which is in my opinion, the BEST argument for using these tough, reliable, loud, AMAZING little 35mm motion picture cameras. The M2, like he said, can be converted to a PL mount and driven by a sound sync motor though at 55 dbs, they're too loud for sound-sync unless place VERY far away, used with a blimp, used in conjunction with extensive ADR or sound removal filter in post.

Mark Shap is selling his Ostcam,

www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=24131

which is a completely modernized, M2 at a very good price. Go to the Konvas, Kinor, Lomo section here and you can read all about these wonderful Soviet commiecams. The Konvas is the AK-47 of motion picture cameras :D !
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#14 Max Jacoby

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 03:13 AM

The Konvas is the AK-47 of motion picture cameras :D !

Ehh, okay...
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#15 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 03:56 AM

The Konvas is the AK-47 of motion picture cameras :D !

What would the M-16 be? A Panaflex?
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#16 John Sprung

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 12:26 PM

What would the M-16 be? A Panaflex?

No, Arriflex made it -- a sort of precursor to the 16-BL, called the 16-M. ;-)



-- J.S.
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#17 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 01:58 PM

No, Arriflex made it -- a sort of precursor to the 16-BL, called the 16-M. ;-)
-- J.S.

Hah! Ohh man I completely missed that one! I guess I was thinking more of an American version per se, but your correction is pretty spot on
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#18 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 09:29 PM

What would the M-16 be? A Panaflex?


Ya, pretty much. The M-16 is a great rifle but requires regular maintenance and care. You would never want to let an M-16 sit in a gun locker un-oiled for long periods of time or let it sweat and not clean it on a regular basis. The Kalashnikov, you can throw in a locker let it rust up a little, pull it out after a couple of months kick the bolt open with your foot and it's ready to rock and roll. You drag it through the mud, abuse the Hell out of it and the damn thing still fires! The mechanism is simple and easy to break down in the field under combat conditions (which translates into lying on your belly in the muck). It's also the premiere assault rifle in the world. There are MILLIONS of the AKs all over the globe.

The Knovas is perhaps the toughest and most reliable 35mm motion picture camera on Earth. It's very simple to maintain and sense they were manufactured from 1952 until 1993 and were used for everything from new reel cameras to making A-list Soviet feature films and the Soviets made a LOT of films for propaganda reasons, plus they were relatively cheap to make so there are literally thousands of them available and being used in the West.

I personally think it's a good analogy, the one thing the Soviets excelled at was making equipment that was tough and reliable. Remember the Venera 7 was the first spacecraft to survive a landing on Venus and transmit data back, the Russians created some tough machines. B)
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#19 Arun Singaraju

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 06:44 PM

Guys,

Need guidance on the film. No conclusive answers yet. My prof has recommended me to S 16 and then blowing it to 35mm for work print.

What do other cinematographers here think. I am looking for a DP too. If you can guide me with the project about the film stock, camera etc will take you onboard and we could get going.

Budget, casting, locations etc is in process currently. Will be distributing the movie in India and arrangements are being made for the same.

Thanks
Arun
asingaraju@gmail.com
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#20 Chris Keth

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:43 AM

The Konvas is the AK-47 of motion picture cameras :D !


So in other words it's overly heavy for what it does, cheap, and jams a lot? Oh, it's also the standard camera for most insurgent groups!
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