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RED at ISO8000.


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#1 jan von krogh

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 06:42 PM

The manufacturer of the Red one published today images shot with the camera at ISO8000, lit with tungsten.

As i am not sure if it is legal to post the images here i provide a link to the images.
http://www.reduser.n...read.php?t=3215
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#2 Chayse Irvin

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 07:29 PM

Thats impressive... :wub:
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 08:26 AM

Thats impressive... :wub:


Hi,

I would like to see a stouffer chart exposed that way.

Stephen
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#4 Nate Downes

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:16 AM

The fragments of the chart above show a huge loss of fine detail. I hope that is due to the shrinking of the size.
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#5 Jim Jannard

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:40 PM

The fragments of the chart above show a huge loss of fine detail. I hope that is due to the shrinking of the size.


Of course...

Jim
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#6 Nate Downes

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:03 PM

Of course...

Jim


Any chance of seeing the full-sized file then?
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#7 Jim Jannard

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:11 PM

Any chance of seeing the full-sized file then?


Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted?

Jim
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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:20 PM

Upload the 4K.

Otherwise, you give the appearance of being evasive.

I have still not seen real uncompressed 4K off the camera.

Phil
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#9 Jim Jannard

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 06:51 PM

Upload the 4K.

Otherwise, you give the appearance of being evasive.

I have still not seen real uncompressed 4K off the camera.

Phil


Phil... think what you want. And we are not shooting uncompressed 4k. We don't intend to. We are shooting 4k REDCODE RAW.

Jim
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#10 Nate Downes

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:27 PM

Rather than waste time uploading the 4k, I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg. I am curious, Nate... is there anything you found interesting in the ISO 8000 image as posted?

Jim


Well, as/is it's nice and noise-free that I can tell. But I did notice some moire issues in the shadow areas, but that likely is due to the noise reduction routines in the software, and is a lot less severe than most video cameras that I've delt with. However, going from frame to frame this could be a severe issue if not addressed. All in all, impressive, and I hope to be able to use one in the upcoming year.
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#11 Werner Klipsch

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:44 PM

I guess you will just have to trust that some detail is lost shrinking a 4k file to a 1k jpeg.

Jim


You guess? We have to trust? I don't.
Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?
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#12 Mitch Gross

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:47 PM

You guys just love to start a fight.

Jim, it looks very interesting. Must be one hell of a noise floor in the DSP. Excellent contrast performance. I'll be interested to check itoutin the coming weeks.
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#13 Jim Jannard

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:51 PM

You guess? We have to trust? I don't.
Why do you not simply take say a 1K-wide chunk of your "4K" file, of the critical area in question, post that not shrunk. That would remove any doubt would it not?


Werner... sorry you feel that way.

Jim
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#14 William A Chapman Jr

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 12:54 AM

Werner has a point, you want to sell the Red, right? If it were me I would try to show at its best. With that said it dose look great.
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#15 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:00 AM

Werner, Phil, relax... soon you will be able to rent a red a to check it for yourself.

Also, these camera then won´t be prototypes.
It seems that the ISO8000 and ISO16000 shots have been done with the "Acapulco" testcameras, which Mark Neveldine recently used.
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#16 jan von krogh

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:10 AM

Werner has a point, you want to sell the Red, right?


There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked.
http://www.reduser.n..._1184475989.jpg
shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link.

however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction.
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#17 Werner Klipsch

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 04:13 AM

Werner... sorry you feel that way.

Jim

Well, your grief could be greatly lessened if you would consider giving a straight answer occasionally.

I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible.

The results with most 2/3 inch HD cameras is laughable. With SD DigiBeta is hysterical. With what I thought was my pretty good Sony SD handycam, I'm embarrassed to say how far it didn't go!

I keenly await my chance to point your product at it. You can pull wonderful resolution rabbits out of the hat with lots of straight lines; you can't fool a zone plate.

But if your camera is as good as you say, what better advertisement could there be?
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#18 Max Jacoby

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 04:21 AM

I have designed a 5K CG zone plate pattern that prints onto an A0 sized sheet. With my 35mm SLR and careful focus, you see all the rings. When you film it with 35mm movie film and a good lens, you get a picture of the plate with nearly all the rings. With the supposed 3.08K Arri D-20 you get something under half the rings, sort of visible.

Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate?
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#19 Nate Downes

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:15 AM

There are 100% crops on reduser.net, however not in the iso8000 thread i linked.
http://www.reduser.n..._1184475989.jpg
shows a comparison between 5218(320) and red(2000) in full scale. i suppose you must be logged in in the forum in order to see the link.

however, the on-line shots will only be previews. the original raw-images a) contain much more information and B) don´t use several layers of datareduction.


Actually, looking at the 5218 you don't see grain, you see the digital scanners standard output, w/o any form of noise reduction. Looks as a standard line-CCD pattern.
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#20 Nate Downes

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:16 AM

Would you mind posting the chart here so one could have a look at it? I'd be curious to see what it looks like, I'd suppose the lines arew not just horizontal and vertical, but also diagonal? Or is it even more elaborate?

Yes, I too would be interested in seeing the chart.
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