Jump to content


Photo

Super 16 to HDcam?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Joshua Jackson

Joshua Jackson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Director
  • Seattle, WA

Posted 14 July 2007 - 07:32 PM

I'm evidently a newbie. I'm shooting a short (50 minutes) on super 16 and I am planning on getting the negative processed and telecine'd so that I can edit digitally. Now...What format should I telecine it to if I plan on transferring the finished product to HDcam? Could someone explain to me what HDcam exactly is? Is it a tape format? DVD? Sorry. I'm new. I need help. Thanks.
  • 0

#2 Nathan Milford

Nathan Milford
  • Sustaining Members
  • 692 posts
  • Director
  • New York, NY

Posted 14 July 2007 - 08:17 PM

Transfer to DVCAM with timecode and keycode burnt into the video.

Edit that and produce an EDL (edit decision list)

Then go back to the lab and re-transfer selected footage from ALL of your footage in HDCAM based on the EDL.

HDCAM is a tape format.

You're looking at $120 or less for 400' (11 min at 24fps) of 16mm filmstock.

You can get as low as $0.12/ft for processing and $0.12/ft for DVCAM dallies, but it might be up to $0.20/ft for either. depends on the lab and the pull you have there.

So, $200 and change for 11 minutes of film. With a 10:1 shooting ratio you'll get a minute of usable footage out of that. Multiply $200 x 50 (for a 50 minute film) is around $10,000... not including tape stock...

Then when you're edit is done from the dalies, you setup a color correction session at between 350-500/hr (you're not being charged by foot now, but by the time involved in transferring and finishing your film) where you'll re-transfer the selects from your EDL. You can get a supervised session where you sit in and tell the guy conforming and color correcting your film what to do or pay less for an unsupervised transfer where you tell the guy what you want and hope he understands you. The number of hours to work on your film? It really depends on too many things...

I just did a D.I. at Goldcrest (John Dowdell is simply the best!) for a 20 minute short I directed and we did all of the broad color correction in a 4 hour period (and it required very little work, relatively, as my DP was spot on with exposure and I had no odd effects) with a bit of dust busting and titles the next morning. John is pretty fast and the tools he's using (ARRI Scanner, Quantel IQ) allow him to work fast so if you go with a lower end post house with older tools you may have to spend more time (for presumably less per hour) finishing it.

It's been different every time in my experience... so prices vary based on this or that colorist or this or that lab or how much correction you need etc...

Shoot
Develop
Dailies on DVCAM
Edit Dailies and spit out EDL
Re-transfer selects (based on the EDL)
Color correct and conform.

That is a typical post path.
  • 0

#3 Joshua Jackson

Joshua Jackson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Director
  • Seattle, WA

Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:14 PM

Thank you, that clears a lot of things up for me. One more question: How does one go about making an EDL? Is it just some timecodes with the shots I want to keep? Does it matter with formatting at all? I understand that their are certain formats to things in the film industry (screenplays, aspect ratios, etc) that are pretty defined, but what about this? Thank you so much!
  • 0

#4 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 16 July 2007 - 06:22 AM

How does one go about making an EDL?


You will have to ensure that your editing software is able to output an Edit Decision List, all professional programs should, certainly Final Cut Pro and professional versions of Avid. (Amateur or semi-proffesional software like Final Cut Express does not.)

You will have consult each software individually to find out the process of outputting an EDL, ideally you should try to test this before editing begins.
  • 0

#5 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:18 AM

Let me add to the helpful posts here another way, the "D.I." way.

In that scenario, you
- shoot s16
- scan the film to 2k or 1080p
- now you can edit / grade in full quality on the editing system. *1
- output the film as imagesequence (dpx etc) or as videostream (quicktime etc) or as a tape (HDCAM) or as distribution media (Blueray, HD-DVD, DVD etc). *2
- for film-out of your short, you will have to record that with a celco, arrilaser etc. *3

*1 several NLE applications allow off/online with digital media. Using inexpensive programs as Adobe Premiere or Final Cut on inexpensive computers would not allow for full uncompressed 2k or 1080p without additional hardware. so, these softwares convert the master 2k/1080p to a datareduced HD format for editing. For the final master, they then compute in not realtime using the original images. For Adobe, you should look into "Aspect Ratio HD", for Final Cut into "pro res".
*2 depending for your purpose, HDCAM or filmout might be the better way. Most mayor festivals and broadcasters use hdcam as one delivery format those days.
*3 be aware that recording filmout for a short will cost you $$$$ and you probably will have a 35mm blowup master.
  • 0

#6 Joshua Jackson

Joshua Jackson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Director
  • Seattle, WA

Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:47 PM

Sweet. I see how lower end editing software doesn't produce EDL's. Might there be an alternative, or should I invest in better software? My plans are to end in HDcam, but...have a digital copy of high enough quality to transfer filmout when money does decide to come in. :) Side question: I understand 2k scanning, HD quality, and so on and so forth, but what does the "p" stand for after 1080p and/or 24p?
  • 0

#7 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:52 PM

the "p" stands for progressive, as it woudl be in actual motion picture film, in 24p, 24 individual images, instead of "i" which is interlaced (60i/1080i) where the image is formed by two fields recorded at slightly different times. This being the case, so far as I know progressive images give higher quality and resolution and are necessary for a film out. not 100% sure on all of that, but I think I got it mostly right.
  • 0


Wooden Camera

Glidecam

CineLab

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Willys Widgets

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Technodolly

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

Opal

Glidecam

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape