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Arriflex 16 - Anyone have some example clips?


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#1 Joel Whybrow

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:47 PM

I am looking at possably buying one as my first camera and was wondering if anyone had some video clips of how the pictures this camera takes looks?

Is it a good first film camera?

Also, does anyone know if it can be converted to super16 for future refrence?

Thanks,

Joel
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:11 PM

Joel,

Arriflex makes quite a few 16mm cameras. Which one are you referring to; Arriflex 16S, 16S/B, 16M, 16BL, 16SR, 16SRII, 16SR3, 416?

If you are referring to the Arriflex 16S or 16S/B, you can see clips shot with these cameras and some of the most commonly available lenses if you go the the web site below. Go to the link entitled "Camera Performance: Film Clips".

Arri16S.com

Do keep in mind that these clips were shot with cameras that were fully serviced and set back to original factory specifications. That will not be the case for a camera purchased off of eBay unless you have it serviced.

Good luck,
-Tim
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#3 Joel Whybrow

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 03:25 PM

Well I decided to go for it after all, looks like a nice little kit and only cost me about £250. It's an Arri 16 ST and comes with two 400' mags, a couple of lenses, matte box, shoulder mount, filters and cables. The eye cup apparently is torn and worse for wear.

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e...N:IT&ih=007

Good? Bad?

It doesn't have a battery by the looks of it though, how much might I need to pay for one or can I just as easily use my own ni-cad?

Thanks for the link too, those movies absolutely influenced my purchase, they look fantastic for such an old machine. Where they shot full frame and cropped? If so they look great for it! If not, how did you do that? ;)

I'll want to have it serviced too before I use it, anyone know someplace I can get that done in the UK?

Wow, that's a lot of questions!

-Joel
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 03:47 PM

Tim,

Your tests were great. Regular 16 can look great.

However, I'm interested in how practical / expensive is a conversion to Super 16 for an Arri S or S/B?

Thanks.
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#5 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:09 PM

I'll want to have it serviced too before I use it, anyone know someplace I can get that done in the UK?


Arri UK should provide you service for it.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:30 PM

Tim,

Your tests were great. Regular 16 can look great.

However, I'm interested in how practical / expensive is a conversion to Super 16 for an Arri S or S/B?

Thanks.


Will,

I would strongly recommend not having an Arriflex 16S converted to Super 16. There are some specific design elements in the Arriflex 16S and S/B that make it a very poor candidate for Super 16 conversion.

Axel Broda, who I would say is THE EXPERT on the Arriflex 16S in this country (being that he was involved in the design and construction of the cameras back in Germany in the 1950's and 1960's) has told me again and again that it is not a camera to convert to Super 16. And he has converted more Arriflex 16SR, and SRII cameras to Super 16 in this country than anyone else (he did all the cameras for NFL films).

Anyway, you can shoot very nice 16:9 footage with a stock Arriflex 16S or S/B, but if you absolutely have to shoot Super 16 for some reason, then I would look at an Arriflex 16SR, SRII or maybe one of the Aatons.

-Tim
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#7 Mark Williams

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 04:10 AM

Joel,

Arriflex makes quite a few 16mm cameras. Which one are you referring to; Arriflex 16S, 16S/B, 16M, 16BL, 16SR, 16SRII, 16SR3, 416?

If you are referring to the Arriflex 16S or 16S/B, you can see clips shot with these cameras and some of the most commonly available lenses if you go the the web site below. Go to the link entitled "Camera Performance: Film Clips".

Arri16S.com

Do keep in mind that these clips were shot with cameras that were fully serviced and set back to original factory specifications. That will not be the case for a camera purchased off of eBay unless you have it serviced.

Good luck,
-Tim

Tim wondered if you can help? What type of grease would you use for an ARRI BL? regarding grease maintenance? and what parts? I can do the oil maintanence.
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 07:22 AM

Tim wondered if you can help? What type of grease would you use for an ARRI BL? regarding grease maintenance? and what parts? I can do the oil maintanence.


Mark,

I don't service the Arriflex 16BL at this time, I've not been trained on that camera. Most of the older cameras use the ARRI Grease, you can purchase it from ARRI INC in New York. Be aware, it is expensive.

As I mentioned on another post about this same subject, a professional production motion picture camera is really not a user serviceable item. It takes training, experience, and specific knowledge to take one of these cameras apart, service it, and get it back together to match the tolerances required to make good images. You can read a little more about this on the web page below, click on the link for "Getting the most out of your Arriflex" and it tells you and shows you some of the things that need to be set properly on the camera.

Arri16S.com

Hope that helps,
-Tim
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#9 Mark Williams

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:11 AM

Mark,

I don't service the Arriflex 16BL at this time, I've not been trained on that camera. Most of the older cameras use the ARRI Grease, you can purchase it from ARRI INC in New York. Be aware, it is expensive.

As I mentioned on another post about this same subject, a professional production motion picture camera is really not a user serviceable item. It takes training, experience, and specific knowledge to take one of these cameras apart, service it, and get it back together to match the tolerances required to make good images. You can read a little more about this on the web page below, click on the link for "Getting the most out of your Arriflex" and it tells you and shows you some of the things that need to be set properly on the camera.

Arri16S.com

Hope that helps,
-Tim

Thanks Tim I have had most of my camera apart though. But not anything important like the gate Or messed with the Flange . I have thoroughly cleaned everything including the ground glass very carefully. I have got rid of all the stains and spent many hours getting it up.. Using various cleaning stuff some designed for car bodywork but now it looks brilliant. I have had all the mags apart and lubricated bearings etc. I have some barneys a white one was professionally restored and another Black barney didn't need anything other than some leather cleaner. The white one looks more pretty and sporty. The Black one more professional. The whole set up looks brilliant. Just wish I could afford to upgrade it to Super 16mm Or if ultra was viable.
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#10 Joel Whybrow

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 12:50 PM

Back to the camera I bought, it seems I lucked out. It's got two Arri standard mounts and one Bayonette mount plus a auto start marking output. No idea how to use this yet but I'm slowly getting the info together.

It all seems to be in good condition though I won't know untill I get it to run.

From what I've read elsewhere, on the 4 pin XLR pin1 is power and pin4 is ground, is that right? Can I just use 9v with it or will I need to resist it down to 8v 3.6a? I've got one standard vari-speed motor and one 24fps governer motor.

Joel
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 03:01 PM

Back to the camera I bought, it seems I lucked out. It's got two Arri standard mounts and one Bayonette mount plus a auto start marking output. No idea how to use this yet but I'm slowly getting the info together.

It all seems to be in good condition though I won't know untill I get it to run.

From what I've read elsewhere, on the 4 pin XLR pin1 is power and pin4 is ground, is that right? Can I just use 9v with it or will I need to resist it down to 8v 3.6a? I've got one standard vari-speed motor and one 24fps governer motor.

Joel


Post some pictures of your camera. I fear that what you are referring to as the 4-Pin XLR might be the sync socket outlet. You don't want to plug power into that.

Congratulations on the 16S/B. A pleasant little surprise that will allow you to use the first generation Zeiss Super Speed prime lenses if you so choose.

You can run the variable speed motor with a commonly available 12 volt Bescor battery. But for the constant speed motor, you need 8 volts. It will probably work fine with a couple of Radio Shack 7.2 volt RC car batteries wired in parallel. 7.2 volts is enough to run the constant speed motor if you don't have the magazine torque motor attached. Don't try to run the constant speed motor with the 12 volt Bescor as it will burn it up.

If you haven't already, you can download a free PDF copy of the Arriflex 16S/B Operating Instructions at the web site below. Click on the "Arriflex 16S, 16S/B, and 16M Manuals" link and then the "Arriflex 16S/B Operating Instruction Manual (1970, Pub. by Arriflex Corp. of America)" link. Be patient, it is a large manual so a big file.

Arri16S.com

Again, congratulations on your new camera.

-Tim
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#12 Joel Whybrow

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:28 PM

I think it is in fact a ST due to the serial but modified with the S/B turret? There's a pic of the serial anyway.

I tried running the vari-speed on 12v 3.6a with a transformer but it really draws current and hardly moves at all. I need to have the camera serviced anyway but this is pretty dis-heartening. I tried the govener motor at 7.5v and nothing, just a hum. I'd imagine it'd move a little at least?

Here's the pics anyway:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The XLR is attached to the power inlet so I assume this is in fact power.

Thanks for the manual links, already had a good look through your website, it's really useful! I find myself referring to it often!

-Joel

Edited by Joel Whybrow, 20 July 2007 - 04:29 PM.

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#13 Tim Carroll

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:53 PM

I think it is in fact a ST due to the serial but modified with the S/B turret? There's a pic of the serial anyway.

I tried running the vari-speed on 12v 3.6a with a transformer but it really draws current and hardly moves at all. I need to have the camera serviced anyway but this is pretty dis-heartening. I tried the govener motor at 7.5v and nothing, just a hum. I'd imagine it'd move a little at least?

The XLR is attached to the power inlet so I assume this is in fact power.

Thanks for the manual links, already had a good look through your website, it's really useful! I find myself referring to it often!

-Joel


Just so we are clear.

Posted Image

I do not see an XLR in any of your pictures. Are you saying it is at the end of your power cable that is out of the frame? If so, that would be where you would plug in your battery.

With the serial number on the camera, I would think that it is a factory S/B, the St just means serial number and it usually appears on the cameras made for the European market where as many of the cameras for the US market have an Nr and then the serial number, but they are the same cameras.

I would be very concerned about the way the camera behaves when you put power to it. I would highly recommend not doing that again until the camera has been checked out by a trained service technician. It sounds like something is jammed in the camera or it is very dry (a very bad sign).

We could inspect it for you, or you could send it to ARRI INC in New York or to Axel Broda. But have it looked at before you try to run it again. They are great little cameras and you got a valuable one with the S/B turret, just make sure it checks out okay before you try running it again and damage some of the internal components.

-Tim
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#14 Joel Whybrow

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:14 PM

Ok, thanks for that, it would make sense that it's dry as though it does have trouble, it does turn at a real low speed, say a max of 5fps. I'll not run it again untill it's been looked at.

Out of interest, what sort of figure might I be looking at for such a service if I sent it to you?

-Joel
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#15 Tim Carroll

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 09:31 PM

Out of interest, what sort of figure might I be looking at for such a service if I sent it to you?

-Joel


We can inspect the camera and let you know what its condition is for no charge (except the cost of shipping the camera to us and return shipping).

For a complete overhaul, disassembling the whole camera, ultrasonically cleaning everything, and reassembling everything with ARRI factory lubricants and setting the camera back to ARRI factory specs, we charge $575 for labor and $25 for parts. We will also collimate up to three prime lenses for the camera at the same time and it is included in that price.

-Tim
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