Jump to content


Photo

Image stability


  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 John Adolfi

John Adolfi
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Producer
  • Fulton, N.Y.

Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:48 PM

So what have we learned about super-8 image stability?

1.) Use a Kodak cartridge with a metal inserted pressure plate.

2.) Use a Leicina Camera... any other candidates?

3.) Use a double super 8 camera with a built in metal pressure plate.

4.) Use single 8 shot with a Fuji ZC1000 with a built in metal pressure plate

5.) Use imaging stabilization software

6.) Shoot 16mm with pin registration


Any thoughts?
  • 0

#2 Robert Hughes

Robert Hughes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Sound Department
  • Minneapolis

Posted 23 July 2007 - 09:18 AM

The jury is still out about the metal pressure plate. Some people report improvements, others say the stock cartridge works better. It seems to be camera and film lot dependent - try it on yours and see. I've had good luck with the stock cartridge on my S8 cameras (Bauer S715XL, S207XL and Nikon R8). Of course DS8 will give you better consistency, and 16mm better still (as the tolerances aren't as critical). If your only criterion of photographic quality is a super stable image you'd be better off with video any day - but of course no one in his right mind would use a video camera when the RED camera is only 8 years from availability :P

Oh, where was I? Oh, yeah, Super 8. It's an amateur format from over 40 years ago. Don't worry about getting the last 0.01% of quality out of it, any more than Lindsey Lohan would fret about putting a 1963 Beetle in a NASCAR race.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 23 July 2007 - 09:23 AM.

  • 0

#3 John Adolfi

John Adolfi
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Producer
  • Fulton, N.Y.

Posted 27 July 2007 - 05:17 PM

The jury is still out about the metal pressure plate. Some people report improvements, others say the stock cartridge works better. It seems to be camera and film lot dependent - try it on yours and see. I've had good luck with the stock cartridge on my S8 cameras (Bauer S715XL, S207XL and Nikon R8). Of course DS8 will give you better consistency, and 16mm better still (as the tolerances aren't as critical). If your only criterion of photographic quality is a super stable image you'd be better off with video any day - but of course no one in his right mind would use a video camera when the RED camera is only 8 years from availability :P

Oh, where was I? Oh, yeah, Super 8. It's an amateur format from over 40 years ago. Don't worry about getting the last 0.01% of quality out of it, any more than Lindsey Lohan would fret about putting a 1963 Beetle in a NASCAR race.



Robert,

It seems that many are already sweating over people like Santos and others wanting to eeek out that .01 additional quality. See previous posts on this forum.
I believe that if less stable footage is desired, then fine. But I like super-8 and I like stable images. What's my crime?

Edited by John Adolfi, 27 July 2007 - 05:20 PM.

  • 0

#4 Terry Mester

Terry Mester
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 323 posts
  • Other
  • Welland, Ontario, Canada

Posted 27 July 2007 - 07:58 PM

The problem of Super8 image stability isn't inherent in the Super8 Cartridge -- it's the quality of the Camera! Metal wears out with use because of friction. Regular lubrication of a Camera's Gears would reduce this wear and tear. If the Camera's Sprocket Arm is jittery, then the Film advance will be jittery. The S8 (and S16) Camera would be twice as stable if there were two Arms pulling down the Film, and it would wear out more slowly. Also, are you using 24 f/s or 18 f/s? The faster the film is moving, the less stable it will be, and the faster the Camera will wear out. What is needed is a new limited production of top quality S8 Cameras -- with two Sprocket Arms and two separate Motors to run the Clutch and Film Gate. Such a Camera would provide super stability, and its timing would be fantastic even without crystal syncing.
  • 0

#5 Robert Hughes

Robert Hughes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Sound Department
  • Minneapolis

Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:20 PM

Robert,

It seems that many are already sweating over people like Santos and others wanting to eeek out that .01 additional quality. See previous posts on this forum.
I believe that if less stable footage is desired, then fine. But I like super-8 and I like stable images. What's my crime?


It's entirely appropriate and worthwhile to get the best performance out of the gear you've got, and good Super 8 looks great - that's why people still use it. I think I saw some color S8 footage in the flashback scenes of the new Lindsay Lohan movie. And Trevor M. / Santo's "Poe" film demonstrates that PlusX in Super 8 can look pretty sharp.

But chasing after the final .01% seems to me as guilding the lily. Super 8 is what it is, a low-cost, antique home movie format, with all that entails. Work to its strengths, its characteristic look, its ease of use. As for designing a special camera, you'd be better off finding a Bolex DS8 and saving those brain cells for more profitable use.

Edited by Robert Hughes, 27 July 2007 - 11:22 PM.

  • 0


Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Wooden Camera

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

The Slider

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS