Jump to content


Photo

35mm blow up experiences??


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Rodrigo Llano

Rodrigo Llano
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • S

Posted 27 July 2007 - 05:41 PM

Does anybody know a 35 mm blow up experience from Red?



rodrigo
  • 0

#2 Gary McClurg

Gary McClurg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Producer

Posted 27 July 2007 - 06:26 PM

Does anybody know a 35 mm blow up experience from Red?


Its only just now being tested on features.... now their was suppose to be a private screening a while back... but I think it was just 4k...

Now thinking about it... I'm sure they did... but I wonder if any of these films shooting with the prototype did do a film out to see how it looked...

If so and with the productions who are shooting with the camera now would release those tests... who knows might show that the camera is ready for the market...

Edited by Gary McClurg, 27 July 2007 - 06:29 PM.

  • 0

#3 Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Director
  • somewhere worshipping Terrence Malick

Posted 27 July 2007 - 06:38 PM

In theory it should blow up very well, considering that many major films get run through 2K DIs before print. Of course, the origin of the material and the differences in latitude, dynamic range, etc, between film stocks vs CMOS sensors is a whole 'nother issue.
  • 0

#4 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:52 PM

[quote name='Rodrigo Llano' date='Jul 27 2007, 03:41 PM' post='185299']
Does anybody know a 35 mm blow up experience from Red?
rodrigo
[/quote

yes- steven soderberh and peter jachson as some examples.
they were totally entousisasic.

]
  • 0

#5 Scott Webster

Scott Webster

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Other

Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:57 PM

Park Road Post has done a transfer to film of 'Crossing the Line' by all accounts they were happy with the result.
They have also done a re-grade of the original 4k version.

I have not met anyone other then PRP staff that have seen either.

For a full rundown of the 'Crossing the Line' shoot click here for the Onfilm article.
  • 0

#6 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 28 July 2007 - 04:25 AM

Does anybody know a 35 mm blow up experience from Red?
rodrigo


yes- steven soderberh and peter jachson as some examples.
they were totally entousisasic.



Hi Jan,

Have you seen the 35mm version?

Stephen
  • 0

#7 Rodrigo Llano

Rodrigo Llano
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • S

Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:16 AM

Have you seen the 35mm version?

Stephen
[/quote]

actually this is what I'm looking for. If somebody with some experience have seen 35 mm projections..
we could read a lot of stuff about how good or which problems the prototype could have, but how really looks ?

Rodrigo
  • 0

#8 Rodrigo Llano

Rodrigo Llano
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • S

Posted 29 July 2007 - 10:16 AM

Have you seen the 35mm version?

Stephen
[/quote]

actually this is what I'm looking for. If somebody with some experience have seen 35 mm projections..
we could read a lot of stuff about how good or which problems the prototype could have, but how really looks ?

Rodrigo
  • 0

#9 Gary McClurg

Gary McClurg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Producer

Posted 29 July 2007 - 01:14 PM

If there has been a 35mm film out... no one has seen it...

I'm sure that the productions shooting with the camera did a film out...

I would... so I'm sure that these producer and directors have done the same...

It would be like I used to do a while back... go to RGB in Hollywood... get 35mm film stock put into still rolls... then I'd go out shoot and see which stock I liked the best... after viewing the slide...

It had nothing to do with plot or story... so the footage could be colored timed to look its best like any other film and let the world see it...
  • 0

#10 Mark Bonnington

Mark Bonnington
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Other
  • Redmond, WA

Posted 30 July 2007 - 01:32 PM

Cheap 4k projectors are on the horizon, so converting Red footage to film reels may ultimately be a waste of time and money.
  • 0

#11 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:31 PM

Cheap 4k projectors are on the horizon, so converting Red footage to film reels may ultimately be a waste of time and money.

The installed base of 35mm theater projectors is large enough -- tens or hundreds of thousands -- that they're likely to remain dominant for many years. It'll take a while to make and sell that many 4K projectors. Digital distribution, though, is significantly less expensive than making film prints. That'll put some pressure on the process.



-- J.S.
  • 0

#12 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:34 PM

Cheap 4k projectors are on the horizon, so converting Red footage to film reels may ultimately be a waste of time and money.

Film projection is still the predominant method of projection, so as of now transfering digitally shot films to 35mm is still something that has to be dealt with. Holding your breath until all the projectors in the world are digital is going to give you a very red face.
  • 0

#13 Gary McClurg

Gary McClurg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Producer

Posted 30 July 2007 - 02:45 PM

Film projection is still the predominant method of projection, so as of now transfering digitally shot films to 35mm is still something that has to be dealt with. Holding your breath until all the projectors in the world are digital is going to give you a very red face.


No pun intended right... :lol:
  • 0

#14 Hank den Drijver

Hank den Drijver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 30 July 2007 - 04:38 PM

Here's some experience. Mind you: (and my friend Max Jacoby will confirm this) this was posted on Reduser.net by J.J. so it is probably untrue. Or at least unwanted advertisement of his Red camera.
On the other hand: it is within the subject of this thread.

"We're shooting RED side by side film. We scanned the film 4k and took both into the Baselight, compared them and then did a filmout of both. When we screened side by side, we literally could not tell the difference. In fact, most people picked the RED footage as film because of a greater dynamic range in the highlights than in the 5218. It's not enough to say it is the best digital image out there. The fact is, finally, we can intercut digital with film. It looked remarkably better than the filmed images. I thought I would never be able to say that"

Jon Farhat, VFX Supervisor, "Wanted".

Edited by Hank den Drijver, 30 July 2007 - 04:41 PM.

  • 0

#15 Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Director
  • somewhere worshipping Terrence Malick

Posted 30 July 2007 - 06:08 PM

It's not even really an issue. 4K out to film is going to look just fine. 2k out to film looks good enough for multiplexes, so why would 4K not be sufficient? Of course I am assuming that the finished Red One will perform up to expectations in terms of image quality, dynamic range, etc. But that remains to be seen.

4K to 4K digital projection in theory could rival 70mm chemical film projection in terms of clarity and detail, according to some of the things I have read. This is not to say that Red's sensor will match the capabilities of five-perf 65mm negs.
  • 0

#16 Martin Yernazian

Martin Yernazian
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Director
  • San Francisco/Los Angeles CA USA

Posted 30 July 2007 - 07:31 PM

will see what happens, I will love to see all kinds of thing been projected at 4k
starting with Red, 35mm, 65mm and man, even Super 16!!!, but of course super 16 will have a top on res at 3k

Now I also heard a study that the human eye can't detect more than 2 to 3k res, but yet I guess teh ultimate goal is to have a projection power that can , instead of showing a movie in wall, to have window that can look as reality itself and I think the more people keep working at it will get to that futuristic point

I hope that makes sense hehehe
  • 0

#17 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 30 July 2007 - 07:46 PM

... instead of showing a movie in wall, to have window that can look as reality itself ...

For the more distant future, perhaps instead of a display that we look at with our eyes, we'll bypass our eyes and ears, and couple directly to the brain. ;-)



-- J.S.
  • 0

#18 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 31 July 2007 - 03:36 AM

but yet I guess teh ultimate goal is to have a projection power that can , instead of showing a movie in wall, to have window that can look as reality itself and I think the more people keep working at it will get to that futuristic point


Sounds rather like "slow glass".
  • 0

#19 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 31 July 2007 - 08:54 AM

The installed base of 35mm theater projectors is large enough -- tens or hundreds of thousands -- that they're likely to remain dominant for many years. It'll take a while to make and sell that many 4K projectors. Digital distribution, though, is significantly less expensive than making film prints. That'll put some pressure on the process.
-- J.S.


It is? $120,000 per-screen per-year for the digital projectors is less expensive than $45,000-$90,000 per-year per-screen for the film prints?

Unless there's been a quantum leap in hard drive storage and DLP technology, the film projectors are still the cost savings leaders.
  • 0

#20 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 July 2007 - 01:17 PM

It is? $120,000 per-screen per-year for the digital projectors is less expensive than $45,000-$90,000 per-year per-screen for the film prints?

Unless there's been a quantum leap in hard drive storage and DLP technology, the film projectors are still the cost savings leaders.

The way to compare it is projectors to projectors and prints to downloads.

The film projector is cheaper, you can get decent ones for perhaps $35k, but in most cases they're a sunk cost, already in place. Digital projectors, figure $250k and up. The scary thing about them is guessing what the useful life will be. They'll most likely become obsolete and unmarketable well before they fail due to long hours of use. That could be just a couple years, while film projectors are still running after 70 odd years in some cases.

It's been a long time since I had to know film print prices. By now, I'd guess somewhere around $2k each, does anybody know? Sending encrypted files by wire, or even by satellite, has to be a lot cheaper.

Projectors are bought by the theaters, prints are bought by the distributors. For theaters that are close to the tipping point on going digital, it might be wise of the distributors to offer a little incentive -- sort of like the government incentives for installing solar panels.

Theater specific installation issues will also be important. Older changeover houses may be in a better position to go to one film projector and a platter, losing the chanegover capability to make room for digital projection. Cramped multiplex booths designed initially for platter only operation may have a tougher time, perhaps having to make some rooms digital only.



-- J.S.
  • 0


CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Technodolly

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Visual Products

The Slider

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Opal

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc