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HDCAM SR tapes


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#1 Andre LeBlanc

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:39 PM

Hi all,

I only recently learned of Sony's HDCAM SR tapes, which have 4:4:4, 10 bit data capability. If this is true, then do any of the current crop of Cinealta cameras record to these tapes, and take advantage of this data rate? Any info, or clarification is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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#2 Rory Hanrahan

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:27 AM

Both the F-950 and the new F-23, used in conjunction with the SRW-1 deck, can record in this format. The 950's unfortunately need to be tethered to the deck remotely via HD dual link or fiber optic cables, while the 23's have the ability to dock the VTR like a film magazine. A quick web search will turn up loads of info, and Sony has web pages devoted to these high end products (I'm sure you can even find the camera manuals on their site).

I can't speak for the F-23, as I haven't used it yet, but in my opinion the 950 has some definite cons that go along with its superior format -- namely the restrictions imposed by having an umbilical cord to the deck. In studio situations this is not much of a problem, but for location shooting it can mean extra time to move and set up, as well as introduce a new possible flaw in faulty cables.

I can go into production details ad nauseum, but it sounds like you're more interested in the basic format and how it handles image compression than you are in on-set war stories, so as I mentioned above, go to Sony's site (and those of many other critics, commentators and users) to read for yourself. Also, try searching this site, as I know these cams have been discussed here before.
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#3 e gustavo petersen

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:35 AM

As for Sony cameras, the F23 and the F950 both make use of 10 bit, 4:4:4 when recording to the SRW1.

http://bssc.sel.sony...oot/index.shtml
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#4 Elhanan Matos

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 09:09 PM

You can also use the SRW1 deck with the F900 and record 1920 x 1080 4:2:2 10 bit as opposed to 1440 x 1080 3:1:1 8 bit.
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#5 Andre LeBlanc

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 12:25 AM

Interesting... thank you for the replies! I wasn't aware that you could hook the SRW1 VTR to the F900.

Just out of curiosity, are there many places that still rent the F950? I've been doing plenty of Internet searches, and although the F900 is still readily available, the F950 is tough to come by. It's obviously been discontinued... but to what extent?

Edited by Andre LeBlanc, 07 August 2007 - 12:25 AM.

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#6 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 12:45 AM

You can get them from many camera houses, at least the major ones in LA (like Claremont). I know Vince Pace of Pace Technologies has several modified versions of the 950 available.

Tethering can be inconvenient, but not as big of a problem as many make it out to be. It is very rare that someone is shooting HD or film without at least a production monitor. In most cases its the SDI out as well as the camera control cable and various sound cables. The fiber back is sort of more convenient.
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#7 John Sprung

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 01:15 PM

Tethering can be inconvenient, but not as big of a problem as many make it out to be.

Indeed, with most film cameras you're tethered to a block battery. A tape or disk recorder may be somewhat larger, but if it can ride on the dolly, it's not that much of a bother.



-- J.S.
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#8 Mike Brennan

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:56 PM

Indeed, with most film cameras you're tethered to a block battery. A tape or disk recorder may be somewhat larger, but if it can ride on the dolly, it's not that much of a bother.
-- J.S.


The f950 has been replaced with the HDC1500 which is delivering less noise and greater dynamic range even with its basic gamma curves.
More gamma curves to come which will make it even better.
Beware that the HDC1500 needs a software mod to output 4:4:4

Mike Brennan
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#9 Timo Klages

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:56 AM

Interesting... thank you for the replies! I wasn't aware that you could hook the SRW1 VTR to the F900.



in general, you can hook up any camera to the SRW-1 recorder that has an HD-SDI output (or even better, a dual-link HD-SDI). not only sony...

greets,

timo klages
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#10 jan von krogh

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 10:20 AM

in general, you can hook up any camera to the SRW-1 recorder that has an HD-SDI output (or even better, a dual-link HD-SDI). not only sony...

greets,

timo klages


correct.
we use, since 2002, uncompressed discrecorders (which are even better than hdcam sr) when we want to shoot with hdcam cameras for ultracomplex postpro.
(keying of semitransparent objects in front of their shadows, 3d motion tracking etc).
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#11 Timo Klages

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 10:25 AM

correct.
we use, since 2002, uncompressed discrecorders (which are even better than hdcam sr) when we want to shoot with hdcam cameras for ultracomplex postpro.
(keying of semitransparent objects in front of their shadows, 3d motion tracking etc).



interesting!
what format do you record in this case? raw-file format (like the D20 can do with the fraunhofer disk recorder)? and is the difference really so big between uncompressed files and, let´s say, HQ-mode when using the SRW-1 considering the post pro?

Edited by Timo Klages, 27 August 2007 - 10:26 AM.

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#12 jan von krogh

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 11:18 AM

interesting!
what format do you record in this case? raw-file format (like the D20 can do with the fraunhofer disk recorder)?

No, RAW data isn´t available at Sony, sadly. RAW is available at Viper, Red, S:I and Arri, with their corresponding propietary formats.
If you come from from 750/900R : YUV422, 10bit, from the others RGB444, 10bit.
using aja (xena & koona) and blackmagic design (decklink) and a fast scsi (or sata) discarray, they are meanwhile pretty small and light.
ours is 19´2he, but there are some who already have 19´1he.

shameless selfpromotion: on the lower left, there it is.
http://redrental.de/recording.htm

and is the difference really so big between uncompressed files and, let´s say, HQ-mode when using the SRW-1 considering the post pro?

I would say: No.
It makes sense for complicated green/bluescreen and tracking and totally complicated gradings - and if someone is a total qualitymaniac.
And if one has the choice, why go for the lesser format. However visually, its almost impossible to seperate them.
One -can- force HDCAM SR to crap out (with pxiel by pixel pattern), but i would say that is rather hypothetical/science.

However, if you come from HDCAM, not HDCAM SR, then its worth shooting to disc, especially in studio situation when it isn´t a problem to work tethered.
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