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#1 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 03:39 AM

Hi all.
So i have this wonderful DVCAM tapes from the laboratory. They have the time code and reel codes printed in the image.
And now i have to edit.
The goal is to create an EDL to later scan the film at 2k.

And my question is: how do i make this EDL?
I am an expert in Vegas, but i think Vegas and timecodes do not go together well.
I can edit in FCP but i have no Mac around me for the project.
I could get a cheap Avid and edit there.
Remember this is a rought cut to be later scaned and worked at 2K.

So my questions are: how does the lab know what time code corresponds to what reel and lenght?
Is the DVCAM timecode attached to the avi file that i will capture? What happens if a frame is dropped?
I am sure all this workflow is somewhere but i could not find it.
CIao!
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#2 Keith Mottram

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 01:11 PM

Hi all.
So i have this wonderful DVCAM tapes from the laboratory. They have the time code and reel codes printed in the image.
And now i have to edit.
The goal is to create an EDL to later scan the film at 2k.

And my question is: how do i make this EDL?
I am an expert in Vegas, but i think Vegas and timecodes do not go together well.
I can edit in FCP but i have no Mac around me for the project.
I could get a cheap Avid and edit there.
Remember this is a rought cut to be later scaned and worked at 2K.

So my questions are: how does the lab know what time code corresponds to what reel and lenght?
Is the DVCAM timecode attached to the avi file that i will capture? What happens if a frame is dropped?
I am sure all this workflow is somewhere but i could not find it.
CIao!


Hi Mr.,
dont know vegas so cannot help you in this respect, but if you are using avid or fcp your workflow is effectively the same thing. firstly are your tapes pal or ntsc and are they 24 @ 25 or pull down etc (your lab sheet should say this). in fcp or avid your quicktime will keep the TC from the tapes and when you digitise the tapes your nle will ask for a reel name. so your edl will then relate to specific tapes/ reels and their specific TC. your edl will then translate back to a 24fps batch list via cinema tools (for fcp) or and gosh darn it i cannot remember the film composer option...

keith
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#3 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 01:15 PM

Hi Mr.,
dont know vegas so cannot help you in this respect, but if you are using avid or fcp your workflow is effectively the same thing. firstly are your tapes pal or ntsc and are they 24 @ 25 or pull down etc (your lab sheet should say this). in fcp or avid your quicktime will keep the TC from the tapes and when you digitise the tapes your nle will ask for a reel name. so your edl will then relate to specific tapes/ reels and their specific TC. your edl will then translate back to a 24fps batch list via cinema tools (for fcp) or and gosh darn it i cannot remember the film composer option...

keith



DVCAM tapes are in PAL 25 fps.
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#4 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 12:33 AM

My first adivice is dont use vegas ever again! try FCP or avid (i prefer avid)

and if you dont want to waste youre money dont go to a 2K workflow with a rough edit.

bye!!
Treegan

Hi all.
So i have this wonderful DVCAM tapes from the laboratory. They have the time code and reel codes printed in the image.
And now i have to edit.
The goal is to create an EDL to later scan the film at 2k.

And my question is: how do i make this EDL?
I am an expert in Vegas, but i think Vegas and timecodes do not go together well.
I can edit in FCP but i have no Mac around me for the project.
I could get a cheap Avid and edit there.
Remember this is a rought cut to be later scaned and worked at 2K.

So my questions are: how does the lab know what time code corresponds to what reel and lenght?
Is the DVCAM timecode attached to the avi file that i will capture? What happens if a frame is dropped?
I am sure all this workflow is somewhere but i could not find it.
CIao!


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#5 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:33 AM

My first adivice is dont use vegas ever again! try FCP or avid (i prefer avid)

and if you dont want to waste youre money dont go to a 2K workflow with a rough edit.

bye!!
Treegan



Why?
Vegas 7.0 is above FCP in many aspects and well, everything is better than avid ;D
Vegas video only lacks a bigger bit depth color managing to be perfect.
But since EDL need to be done in Avid, i have no other option but to use Avid.
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#6 Keith Mottram

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:46 AM

Why?
Vegas 7.0 is above FCP in many aspects and well, everything is better than avid ;D
Vegas video only lacks a bigger bit depth color managing to be perfect.
But since EDL need to be done in Avid, i have no other option but to use Avid.


Hey Mister,

Why does EDL need to be done in Avid- cheaper than an FCP suite? Also if you shot at 24fps how did the lab transfer the 24fps to 25fps (was it 24 at 25) and did they sync audio? Having only used analogue, Avid and FCP (oh and premier once oh the pain etc...) I am interested in why Vegas is so good can you tell me what sets it apart for you?

keith
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#7 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:04 AM

Hey Mister,

Why does EDL need to be done in Avid- cheaper than an FCP suite? Also if you shot at 24fps how did the lab transfer the 24fps to 25fps (was it 24 at 25) and did they sync audio? Having only used analogue, Avid and FCP (oh and premier once oh the pain etc...) I am interested in why Vegas is so good can you tell me what sets it apart for you?

keith


Because Avid EDL are the industry standard.
FCP cheaper than AVid? Well, maybe the PC low versions. Ask for the price of an Adrenaline system.
Transfer in PAL countries is done at 25fps so everything goes a bit faster. If you have sound you need to adjust it.
My film has no sound, so it dont care.
Vegas is much faster in editing to all other editing suits. When i say editing, i mean cutting moving clips, cropping, readjusting, using fades etc...
The preview window is quite smart and FCP nor Avid are close to that. And it is not so amazing, it is just that the others dont make it goog enough.
Vegas is not good for handling files as well as FCP or Avid, so for very long cuts i would avoid it if you dont want to get crazy.
Music videos, ads, shortfilms, anything shorter than 20 mins, and Vegas will help you finish the work a lot faster.
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#8 David Auner aac

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:26 AM

Cut on Avid. IIRC the newer versions of XpressDV can do 24p and 25p. Compared to the other editing progs I have used (Premiere Pro, FCP (just gave it a try, don't use Mac anyway) Xpress is way more fun to edit and more stable.

When you capture in Avid (OMFI) the time code is kept with the master clip. When you drop frames the capture stops, you should never get dropped frames with DVCAM. If you do then the heads need cleaning or the tape is faulty. Try any other machine before freaking out. Some tapes have the strange trait of not capturing well on one VTR but without problem on the other...

Ask the telecine house (or whoever will do the online in 2k) what they prefer EDL-wise. My guess is that an Avid EDL will be fine.

HTH, Dave
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#9 Mr. Macgregor

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:31 AM

Cut on Avid. IIRC the newer versions of XpressDV can do 24p and 25p. Compared to the other editing progs I have used (Premiere Pro, FCP (just gave it a try, don't use Mac anyway) Xpress is way more fun to edit and more stable.

When you capture in Avid (OMFI) the time code is kept with the master clip. When you drop frames the capture stops, you should never get dropped frames with DVCAM. If you do then the heads need cleaning or the tape is faulty. Try any other machine before freaking out. Some tapes have the strange trait of not capturing well on one VTR but without problem on the other...

Ask the telecine house (or whoever will do the online in 2k) what they prefer EDL-wise. My guess is that an Avid EDL will be fine.

HTH, Dave



Thanks Dave.
WHat is the OMF? Do i have to capture from the 1st frame in the tape or that just does not matter since time code is time code. BTW, how does the post house know exatly what timecode code corresponds to the actual frame in the film? Do they save a timecode/reel metering code for everything they do? So do they have to find that later?
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#10 Keith Mottram

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:32 AM

Because Avid EDL are the industry standard.
FCP cheaper than AVid? Well, maybe the PC low versions. Ask for the price of an Adrenaline system.
Transfer in PAL countries is done at 25fps so everything goes a bit faster. If you have sound you need to adjust it.
My film has no sound, so it dont care.
Vegas is much faster in editing to all other editing suits. When i say editing, i mean cutting moving clips, cropping, readjusting, using fades etc...
The preview window is quite smart and FCP nor Avid are close to that. And it is not so amazing, it is just that the others dont make it goog enough.
Vegas is not good for handling files as well as FCP or Avid, so for very long cuts i would avoid it if you dont want to get crazy.
Music videos, ads, shortfilms, anything shorter than 20 mins, and Vegas will help you finish the work a lot faster.


Hi,

I think you got confused over my post, I am in London so I know all about PAL, which is why I was asking whether you shot at 24 or 25 and then how the lab transferred to 25 as this makes a difference when preparing a cut list- I take it you therefor went for 24 at 25 in which case I would certainly prefer to cut on FCP as I find that there system for working with 24@25 projects is superior to Avid though others may disagree.. Will have to look at Vegas one day- though I have never ever come across it in my editing career (which is the best part of a decaded)- though I cannot see how it is faster than the current FCP suite I am using! OMF (Open Source Metadate Framework) is a file format and is used in both FCP and Avid- in FCP for exporting to Pro Tools (it imbeds track layout/ fades ect.) and it can also be used to transfer all data from Avid to Avid and to other NLE's and Post Production via converters. It is rapidly being relegated by XML.

There is no such thing as an Avid EDL or FCP edl, they just create it and both will export the same ones - your post house will probably want a CMX file. Either way your EDL will have to be converted so that it is back to 24fps you will need to do this with Cinema Tools in FCP or Avid's version, whose name escapes me right now. It doesn't matter where you capture from as long as you log the reels correctly so that the post house can match them. As long as they have prepped right and you deliver an accurate edl then there should be no problem. As this is your first edl then I suggest you get a film editor in to prepare your edl for them otherwise you can easilly screw up at this stage.

keith
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#11 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 01:38 PM

Keith,

What's painful about Premiere?

The complete lack of new functionality since version 5, or the godawful multilayer support in Pro?

Phil
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#12 Keith Mottram

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 04:35 PM

Keith,

What's painful about Premiere?

The complete lack of new functionality since version 5, or the godawful multilayer support in Pro?

Phil


Phil,

It was a long time ago... it was a horrible job and i ended in a dark place... i'm sure it is now a perfectly capable NLE!

keith
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#13 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:02 PM

Yes, very capable, other than the complete lack of new functionality since version 5, and the godawful multilayer support in Pro.
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Visual Products

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