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Kinor 16 CX 2m


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#1 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:05 AM

Hi. Yesterday I got my first Kinor 16 cx 2m.

There is one interesting thing about it, while rotating the (moving up the tube) viewfinder the image inside rotates too. Is there any way of preventing this?

And another question: I want connect the power plug to home made power supply (12V, 7A) which pin in the power socket of camera is plus and which is minus?

best regards
Pawel
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 02:36 PM

Hi. Yesterday I got my first Kinor 16 cx 2m.

There is one interesting thing about it, while rotating the (moving up the tube) viewfinder the image inside rotates too. Is there any way of preventing this?



Kinor-16 SX-2M camera have possibilities of adjust of viewfinder for left and right eye, and can be rotate on up and down, but, the image will rotate too.
the optical scheme of viewfinder of camera don't have compensative prism.
This is payment for high light of viewfinder.

The next generation of Russian 16 mm professional cine cameras ( Kinor-16 R ) have rotate viewfinder and have special compensative


And another question: I want connect the power plug to home made power supply (12V, 7A) which pin in the power socket of camera is plus and which is minus?


You need be a very attentive.
if you connect of battery with reversal polarity, you will destroy of electronics.
The original electronics of 29EPSS don't have protective system.

At first, you need take away of fuse.
After you connect of power cord, the ( + ) battery must be in contact inside of holder of fuse.
If all will OK, you can set of fuse and test of motor and camera.

[attachment=2513:power_socket_1.jpg]

But, before run of camera, i recommend to do of current maintenance.
The mechanism of Kinor camera have three holes for set a 2-3 drops of oil.
The first point - the hole inside central screw of shutter disk.
The next second and third points - two red holes from left side of film gate.
You need use of oil-can with long syringe needle.
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#3 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 07:58 AM

Today i discovered that this camera is actualy kinor 16cx-3m so probably the newer version. But one thing is very annoying, this roation of picture in viewfinder. Is there any way to get different viewfinder for this camera to work without this rotation?


regards
Pawel
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#4 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 08:06 AM

And one more question? How fo I detach motor? Is it possible?
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#5 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 01:23 PM

Today i discovered that this camera is actualy kinor 16cx-3m so probably the newer version. But one thing is very annoying, this roation of picture in viewfinder. Is there any way to get different viewfinder for this camera to work without this rotation?
regards
Pawel


Kinor-16 SX-3M, this is name of kit of Kinor-16 SX-2M camera with 16 OPF-12-1 10-100 mm zoom lens.
A first editions of Kinor-16 SX-2M had zoom lens 16 OPF-1-2M 12-120 mm.
I don't know other differences between 2M and 3M versions.
The viewfinder had two locks of fix of position of viewfinder. The one lock to fix of viewfinder on horizontal, the second lock to fix of viewfinder on any other position.
About use of other type of viewfinders with Kinor camera i don't know.
I think, possible, but, need test.

About "detach of motor".
This is very easy.
I think, Kinor-16 SX-3M have " three-screws" version of junction of motor with body.
You need unscrew 3 long screws near pistol grip.
The other Kinor-16 SX cameras have have " level lock " version of junction of motor with body.
You can see lever at lower side of motor. You need turn of lever and detach of motor.
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#6 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:18 AM

Oleg, tell me please: the viewfinder in KONVAS 2M is also without compensating prism, or it keeps the horisontal position and is not depending on position of thr viewfinder, how do you think, is it possible to get KONVAS 2M viewfinder working in kinor (in case it keeps the hoirsontal axis all the time the same).

regards
Pawel
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#7 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 01:27 AM

Oleg, tell me please: the viewfinder in KONVAS 2M is also without compensating prism, or it keeps the horisontal position and is not depending on position of thr viewfinder, how do you think, is it possible to get KONVAS 2M viewfinder working in kinor (in case it keeps the hoirsontal axis all the time the same).


The viewfinder of Konvas-2M don't have compensating prism too.
This is rotate viewfinder, have positions for left and right eye.
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#8 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 04:16 PM

What power supply should I use for 29EPSS motor?

I tried 12V 3.33A, and it barely moves the shutter, I was expecting it would be enpugh to run camera at full speed but it is not enough.

best regards
Pawel
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#9 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 24 August 2007 - 12:49 PM

What power supply should I use for 29EPSS motor?

I tried 12V 3.33A, and it barely moves the shutter, I was expecting it would be enpugh to run camera at full speed but it is not enough.

best regards
Pawel


The value of current depend from condition of mechanism and other.
From my notes:
Kinor-16 SX-2M, serviced, with 400 ft magazine and film, at 25 fps have current 2.5..3.5a
But, At start time, the current can be to 4..5 A ( impulse ).

I think, you need power source 12v 5..7A.

I recommen to test of camera with battery, at first.
Possible, the electronics f motor adjust for slow speed.
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#10 Pawel Saladziak

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 09:36 AM

Well, finally I made the powersupply by myself. Of course from ready to use components. I took 12V 10A transformer, and belive me or not when the 120Meter casette is loaded with film the motor takes even 8.5 A. It was measured many times with two meters so the metering is correct. Of course it take so much only at the begining.

Motor runs very nice and its really quiet. But the magazines are pretty loud, does any of you have experience of servicing magazines to lube them with grease and oil so the can work more quiet? Probably its again question for Olex :)

I also noticed that making the film loop slithly bigger makes camera running less noisy.

Now I'm looking sideways to build a blimp housing for the whole camera. My idea is to first build a shell from heavy paper and glue, then cover this with fiberglass fabric and synthethic resin (kind of plastic, I'm not sure of translation) then after hardening I will remove paper cards from inside. Cover hard shell with sound proof foam and then cover this with another shell form fiberglass. Then When basic shell is complete I will cut holes for the viefinder tube, powercable and control lamps. Any ideas how I can improve this project?

There is also one thing that makes me worry. I was inspecting film movement, by looking through the lens mount and I noticed that the film starts to move before the gate window is completly covered by shutter disc. Is it correct?

regards
Pawel
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#11 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 01:18 PM

Well, finally I made the powersupply by myself. Of course from ready to use components. I took 12V 10A transformer, and belive me or not when the 120Meter casette is loaded with film the motor takes even 8.5 A. It was measured many times with two meters so the metering is correct. Of course it take so much only at the begining.


8.5 A. This is too high value of current.
I can suppose, The mechanism of your camera and magazine need technical inspection and service, because, can have problem.

The value of current show of condition of mechanism of camera.


Motor runs very nice and its really quiet. But the magazines are pretty loud, does any of you have experience of servicing magazines to lube them with grease and oil so the can work more quiet? Probably its again question for Olex :)


The main part of total noise - from 120 m magazine and film.
The service of magazine need do of camera technician , because, the magazine have many bearing, have
friction clutch and main gear. And all this parts must be clean, lube and adjust.

The Kinor-16 film magazine have design with automatical set of size of loops. You can see, the film pressure plate have movable base and this base set of size of loops.

There is also one thing that makes me worry. I was inspecting film movement, by looking through the lens mount and I noticed that the film starts to move before the gate window is completly covered by shutter disc. Is it correct?


Sorry, but, your camera have problem with adjust of synchronization between claw mechanism and shutter disk.
Your camera to need of service and full adjust.
At time of contact of transport pin with film ( inside perforation ), the film gate must be closed with forestalling 7.5 degree.
At time of final moving of film of transport pin, The shutter disk must be closed with tardiness 7.5 degree

The registration pin of mechanism of Kinor-16 must be adjust and have correct synchronization with transport pin.
Because, if this is synchronization incorrect, you will have machine for perforation of film, not cine camera.
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#12 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 02:06 AM

Hi Pawel.
I see of your letter with question, but, can't to send answer to you, because, your mail box full.
Send me a request at my direct e-mail olex.camera@gmail.com
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#13 Ole Dost

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 03:15 AM

Hi Pawel.
I see of your letter with question, but, can't to send answer to you, because, your mail box full.
Send me a request at my direct e-mail olex.camera@gmail.com


Dear Pawel,
DonĀ“t get worried about the rotating image while rotating the finder tube. You will get used to it very quickly and it will not prevent you from making great footage with this great camera. I have both cameras -the Kinor 16 sx m2 and the newer Kinor 16P. The Kinor 16P has an orientable viewfinder (the image in the finder can be adjusted). But this is possible by some compensation prisms, that make the finder image of the 16 P a lot darker then the image through the finder of the sx. I prefer the finder of the sx.
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