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mixing 16mm footage with SD video


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#1 ishan vernallis

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 12:11 AM

If this has already been addressed... please forgive the repeat post.
nothing was coming up in the search engine.

I have a music video in the works,
and I'd like to shoot both on 16mm and standard def 24p video (dvx100).
(we won't be doing a HD telecine for this project)

what I am wondering is- what format the 16mm comes back in when telecined
for standard def work...
will it be progressive? (I would hope so)
will it be usable on a 23.98 (24pA) timeline? or only a 29.97 one.
or do they do a true frame for frame 24 fps progressive transfer,
that is only really good for a 24p timeline....



I'm just trying to figure out what mode I need to shoot my dvx in
so as to be able to cut it in with the 16mm transfer.

I suppose it may depend on the lab,
but if anyone has any advice,
I'm all eyes.
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 01:45 AM

and I'd like to shoot both on 16mm and standard def 24p video (dvx100).
(we won't be doing a HD telecine for this project)

what I am wondering is- what format the 16mm comes back in when telecined
for standard def work...
will it be progressive? (I would hope so)
will it be usable on a 23.98 (24pA) timeline? or only a 29.97 one.
or do they do a true frame for frame 24 fps progressive transfer,



Just remember that a panasonic dvx100 is a 29.97 interlaced tape that has 3:2 pulldown introduced and a progressive scan ccd source. A telecine is by nature a progressive scan device that then makes fields for SD video output. There is no native progressive SD video formats NTSC, PAL, Secam, etc. are all interlaced and any miniDv tape will be interlaced as well.

The 24pA timeline removes the pulldown and de-interlaces (I believe) to "extract" the 24p material from it's 29.97 SD interlaced wrapper.

24P film source can be extracted from a SD video stream by doing pulldown removal, which will make a 24frame interlaced stream (pulldown will be re-introduced to playout on a SD monitor) and you can also de-interlace this material to actually make it progressive for non standard delivery such as quicktime.


Just remember that if you go back to SD tape such as DigiBeta or Dvcam etc. it will be interlaced and 29.97 (or 25i) what the end users set does with it is a whole other matter.....

-Rob-
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#3 Chris Burke

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 06:31 AM

If this has already been addressed... please forgive the repeat post.
nothing was coming up in the search engine.

I have a music video in the works,
and I'd like to shoot both on 16mm and standard def 24p video (dvx100).
(we won't be doing a HD telecine for this project)

what I am wondering is- what format the 16mm comes back in when telecined
for standard def work...
will it be progressive? (I would hope so)
will it be usable on a 23.98 (24pA) timeline? or only a 29.97 one.
or do they do a true frame for frame 24 fps progressive transfer,
that is only really good for a 24p timeline....
I'm just trying to figure out what mode I need to shoot my dvx in
so as to be able to cut it in with the 16mm transfer.

I suppose it may depend on the lab,
but if anyone has any advice,
I'm all eyes.



The short answer is yes. The material that you get back can be made to work in any of the afore mentioned timelines. If it is 29.97, then you have to reverse telecine it to make it 23.98. When you do have it transfered, ask Rob for it back on a drive as uncompressed 10 bit, make DV25 clips from that. All this, so when you do an online for a Digibeta finish, at least your film material will already be Digibeta quality.
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#4 ishan vernallis

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:29 PM

Thanks for the input Chris and Robert!
much appreciated.
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Visual Products

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Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies