Jump to content


Photo

I'm going to say it...


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
50 replies to this topic

#1 Adamo P Cultraro

Adamo P Cultraro
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 157 posts
  • Producer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 01:44 PM

OK, Ban me, whatever, but this red sub forum really has the highest level of closed threads anywhere I've seen.

A thread just got closed this morning because a guy wanted first hand impressions on the cam, and it wasn't released yet. The mod figured there was no info to be had, and closed the thread. What a bunch of BS.

I'm a newb on this forum, but have posted a lot on DVXuser, and am no stranger to forums. It really seems like the thread closures are really juvenile, and no offense to the mod, but he really seems to be micromanaging.

So what if people get fired up about the cam and it evokes wordy, insulting responses. Just deal with it, people.

Life has no moderators. Step up to the plate and deal with your own problems.

A :rolleyes:

Edited by Adamo P Cultraro, 28 August 2007 - 01:45 PM.

  • 0

#2 Gary McClurg

Gary McClurg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Producer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:06 PM

Okay I'll attempt this again...

The reason that threads get closed... is because I would say that people come here looking for a fight...

Myself I went to reduser.net a few weeks ago... there was a long thread there how Jannard was being attacked on this forum...

The funny thing is... there was no talk of Jannard for weeks... but on redusers... all the talk was how they're running down are leader again...

And again that is the problem... Jannard has been put on this throne that he is the guy who is giving his all to the indy filmmaker...

All he is doing is making a camera... he can't give any one talent that they don't have... and that is what it takes... talent... not a camera...

But if I posted this on dvxuser, red, dvinfo... I'd be banned or I'd get nasty pm's saying I need to stop slamming the Red...

Why because there has been this bogus marketing idea put out there that the big guys are afraid that all these little guys with the Red are going to steal their jobs... which is the not even half way true... heck if you can shoot, light, etc... who knows I might even hire a guy to shoot my feature... but I'm not going to hire him just because he owns a Red... the best way to say it is this way... give Dave Mullen a cell phone and he'll shoot a better image than me shooting with the Red... because I'm a producer not a dp...

Again if Red makes a camera like they say they will and once it is proven to me... I might be interested in buying one... but unless your going to buy it for me... I'm going to wait until all the bugs are worked out... now if I was super rich... like all these "A" list directors using the camera... hey whats $50k when you make $1mil per picture... or whatever they get...

Edited by Gary McClurg, 28 August 2007 - 02:11 PM.

  • 0

#3 Adamo P Cultraro

Adamo P Cultraro
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 157 posts
  • Producer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:12 PM

This thread is not about the camera.
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:17 PM

This thread is not about the camera.


Hi,

When the camera has been delivered I will open the thread. Until then the thread is a waste of bandwith as nobody has a camera so can't answer the question.

To my knowledge only 1 person has been banned from here to date. One of our members got banned within minutes of finding DVX.

Stephen
  • 0

#5 Chad Stockfleth

Chad Stockfleth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 622 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Louisville, KY

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:20 PM

It seems the line is thin between nipping insulting threads (or threads that deteriorate into such) and censuring potentially inflammatory ones. I myself would prefer that they are let go, but I am not a moderator. Even bad debate is better than no debate.
  • 0

#6 Adamo P Cultraro

Adamo P Cultraro
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 157 posts
  • Producer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:29 PM

My point exactly, Chad.
  • 0

#7 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:36 PM

I think if you're new to a forum and wanted information then the first thing would be to search the forum. If the user in question had done that then he would have had all his questions answered and there really would be no use to start a new thread, especially since he aknowledges that the release date of the camera is still in the future, which does look suspicioulsy like trying to stir things up again.

Either way he can still find an answer to his question by doing a search of the existing threads. Once there are first hand accounts of the camera, Stephen has promised to reopend the thread, so its not like important information is being suppressed.
  • 0

#8 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 28 August 2007 - 02:40 PM

II myself would prefer that they are let go, but I am not a moderator. Even bad debate is better than no debate.


Hi Chad,

Don't get me wrong, I like some banter, however I had 11 reported post emails to deal with this morning, that is boring!

Stephen
  • 0

#9 Chad Stockfleth

Chad Stockfleth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 622 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Louisville, KY

Posted 28 August 2007 - 03:00 PM

What are reported post emails?
  • 0

#10 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5069 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 03:07 PM

From what I've seen the threads here get closed once they start getting personal to an excessive extent.

On another forum dealing with RED (not REDUSER or DVX in this case) debate was jumped on when it was only the early possible RED design features being discussed. It wasn't personal in anyway, but the Mod thought it was reflecting badly on the RED project or the message at the time. It was a good debate and people were putting forward their views in a firm but friendly manner.

Some people here enjoy winding others up and of course these people respond. I suspect that's why there are so many thread replies on a forum for a camera that's just being about to be delivered.

The thread removed this morning had no logical argument and was excessive.
  • 0

#11 Daniel Sheehy

Daniel Sheehy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Other
  • Brisbane

Posted 28 August 2007 - 03:19 PM

What are reported post emails?

Thats what the Mod. gets when someone hits the 'report' button on the left under every post.

The thread that got deleted needed to be dealt with, it was bordering on the defamatory. Its all well and good to have lively debate, but this site could be dragged into lawsuits if that sort of posting is allowed.
Freedom of expression does not cover slander or libel.
  • 0

#12 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 28 August 2007 - 03:33 PM

Thats what the Mod. gets when someone hits the 'report' button on the left under every post.

The thread that got deleted needed to be dealt with, it was bordering on the defamatory. Its all well and good to have lively debate, but this site could be dragged into lawsuits if that sort of posting is allowed.
Freedom of expression does not cover slander or libel.


Hi Daniel,

It was a very personal attack on a member of this board. That member I know, is well respected by the owner of RED.

Stephen
  • 0

#13 Brad Grimmett

Brad Grimmett
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2660 posts
  • Steadicam Operator
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:26 PM

This thread is not about the camera.

Exactly! Many of the threads regarding Red aren't about the camera, they are about personal attacks and whining, and they get out of hand. And every time a thread is closed someone starts another thread and starts making inflammatory statements. This forum is about cinematography, not bickering, name calling, and speculation. And on top of it all the camera hasn't been released yet....how much is there to talk about really? It's great that people are excited about a new piece of equipment, but is it really worth all the hoopla and bickering? Be excited, get the camera, shoot some great stuff, and be happy. And by all means post your results.
Quite a few great cameras have been released over the past few years and we've never had the kind of issues regarding those cameras that we have regarding Red. I'm not sure why that is, but I wish it would stop.
  • 0

#14 Gary McClurg

Gary McClurg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Producer

Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:32 PM

Hi Daniel,

It was a very personal attack on a member of this board. That member I know, is well respected by the owner of RED.

Stephen


Yes it was a very personal attack... against a person who has been on Red's side... but still asks tough questions...
  • 0

#15 Eirik Tyrihjel

Eirik Tyrihjel
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Oslo, Norway

Posted 28 August 2007 - 04:46 PM

Yes it was a very personal attack... against a person who has been on Red's side... but still asks tough questions...

I think it was a mistake... a misunderstanding.
  • 0

#16 Brad Grimmett

Brad Grimmett
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2660 posts
  • Steadicam Operator
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:00 PM

I think it was a mistake... a misunderstanding.

I think you're wrong. It was just a nasty premeditated attack for no reason.
  • 0

#17 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:09 PM

Yes it was a very personal attack...

Well, now it's a mystery. So is the rest of that thread. Is it really necessary to delete entire threads, not just the offensive posts?



-- J.S.
  • 0

#18 Robert Hughes

Robert Hughes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Sound Department
  • Minneapolis

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:10 PM

...we've never had the kind of issues regarding those cameras that we have regarding Red. I'm not sure why that is, but I wish it would stop.

The reason outsiders pile on the RED phenomenon is obvious - the company's marketing department has been generating (for how many months now?) a tremendous cloud of hype over a product that remains in the development stage. Reputable manufacturers promote products, scam artists sell dreams. Where does RED lie on this marketing spectrum?

Edited by Robert Hughes, 28 August 2007 - 05:13 PM.

  • 0

#19 Eirik Tyrihjel

Eirik Tyrihjel
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Oslo, Norway

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:19 PM

Where does RED lie on this marketing spectrum?


You will find out very soon!
  • 0

#20 Michael Collier

Michael Collier
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1262 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:54 PM

I think the problem a lot of us have..... (and before you blast me, re-read my words, and search my previeous posts on RED, I'm not a hater, just getting numb to the bickering)

.....anyway the problem a lot of us have with the red DISCUSSION (not the camera) is that it has brought this forum down to the level of other forums less proffesional forums. Anonymous forums where people blast aways and act like teenagers. This should be a forum for proffesionals.

There was a time, and there are still posters and boards here that still are, professional. People who understand their name is tied to what they type here and speak as such. It used to be solely geared towards getting our jobs done and learning new things, all the while everyone is being as courtious as they would be in person (even phil, I am sure is somewhat abrassive in person, but he knows a lot and hes only abbrasive to make points, and does so well with reserve, unless you jab him with a fork...which I have seen here before)

Red, I think, has brought in a level of discourse on the forums down to the anonymous internet drivel, attacks and counterattacks, arguments that go to far or dont make sense or really serve no purpous to help elevate our art. Maybe red has created a feeding frenzy that turned good people into combative people, but I think red has just brought those people over to this forum, when before they were not (not all our new members, just a few select ones I won't be naming).

I never saw posts as offensive to every long-time member of the forums as I saw yesterday. I am embarressed that such excelent devoted members could be treated so abhorently for what was a well thought out reasonable argument. Those posts needed to be closed and deleted, I was simply aghast to find writting like that.

I do not want to loose forum members who in the past two years I have been a member have helped me countless times expand my understanding of the craft, and helped modivate me to elivate my work. I certainly don't want those members replaced with those who would spend their time arguing about a bunch of copper wires. Its people that inspire me to do better work, not better cameras.

In sumation, I just want to say I hope we can all cool off, relax, have a smoke if you need, just please can we get back to constructive advice tips and questions on the subject of cinematography? I mean, we all should be courtious towards eachother, after all, we are brothers in lenses. Let the painters bicker about which easle works best (painters are of course very hot blooded, its their nature, but it shouldn't be a photographers nature)

please?
  • 0


Aerial Filmworks

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Opal

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Visual Products