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Recording Dialouge


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#1 James Burns

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 02:31 AM

Ok first of all i'm new here so Hi all! Now on to my qeustion.

I'm seriously thinking about buying a 16mm camera. Most likley a K-3. I use DV right now but that is not giving me the look i want. I am a ameteur film maker. When using a K-3 is it too noisie to record the actors dialouge? Can you only record silent movies with a k-3? Do i have to have my actors come in and dub the film later in post?

This is what will sway me on wich way to go. Is there a 16mm camera simmaler to the K-3 that isn't noisey and will allow me to record sound?

Help me out!
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#2 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 03:06 AM

Ok first of all i'm new here so Hi all! Now on to my qeustion.

I'm seriously thinking about buying a 16mm camera. Most likley a K-3. I use DV right now but that is not giving me the look i want. I am a ameteur film maker. When using a K-3 is it too noisie to record the actors dialouge? Can you only record silent movies with a k-3? Do i have to have my actors come in and dub the film later in post?

This is what will sway me on wich way to go. Is there a 16mm camera simmaler to the K-3 that isn't noisey and will allow me to record sound?

Help me out!


The K-3 is way too noisy to record usable scratch track while filming. You have three options that I know of to work around this: 1) Get/ make a very good blimp for the K-3 and hope that's enough (I doubt it) 2) Record a scratch track with the K-3's noise but you still have enough clarity for the actors to do a same day dub OR 3) Go El Mariachi style and record silent, have your actors attempt to say the lines the same way into a recorder after the take, and pray you can sync and if you can't, cut away on those clips.

Perhaps a fourth option, as ridiculous as it sounds, is brush up on your impersonation skills and dub your own voice for the parts later. I've actually heard of this being done and on occassion, I've had to dub a few lines here and there.

As far as recording sound, I couldn't imagine you would want to record the sound on film. I would ALWAYS recommend using a seperate sound recording device. A few days ago I asked about the M-AUDIO 24-bit 2-channel handheld. No one on this forum answered my questions about it so I checked it out myself and it records beautiful quality for a small recorder that is <$300. It has phantom power for the condenser mics also. I can't wait to use this for my next project.

Less noisy 16mm? I've heard (although never actually tested) that the Bolex is much quiet than the K-3. I still don't know if it's quiet enough to get usable raw scratch track. Best thing to do is go to an antique camera store if you have one locally and play around.
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 04:56 AM

There are "MOS" cameras and there are "synch-sound" cameras. The K3 is an MOS camera (Mit Out Sound; in other words only to be use when shooting without sound).

You can try to find a quiet-ish MOS camera and dampen or "barney" the sound with coverings on the camera, but it won't be truly silent. I don't know of any inexpensive 16mm MOS cameras that are significantly quieter than others. If you're trying to shoot dialogue, at some point (like in tight spaces) the sound of the camera will become an issue. Also, most MOS cameras don't use crystal-controlled motors, which are necessary to maintain constant speed so that the sound recording and the image don't drift out of synch.

Entry-level synch-sound cameras include models like the Eclair NPR; CP-16; and Arri 16BL (among others). These are quite a bit of a step up in price from a K3.
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 08:17 AM

The Arriflex 16S is one MOS camera that can be crystal synced and quieted with either a barney(made by Custom Upholstery Products) or a blimp(made by ARRI). Probably going to cost you a bit more than a K3, but as always, you get what you pay for.

You can read about and listen to the sound of the Arriflex 16S camera by itself, inside a barney, and inside a blimp, by visiting the web site and checking out the "How To Articles:", specifically the one entitled, "Quieting an Arriflex 16S - Part #2".

You can also read about and listen to the sound of the Arriflex 16S camera inside a barney, and hear how the soundtrack can be "sweetened" and the camera noise removed, by visiting the web site and checking out the "How To Articles:", specifically the one entitled, "Quieting an Arriflex 16S - Part #1".

Arri16S.com

Hope that helps.
-Tim
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#5 James Burns

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 12:41 PM

This all really helps. Is film very expensive and where can i buy it?
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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 09:11 PM

This all really helps. Is film very expensive and where can i buy it?

yes, and from the maker (Kodak or Fuji) or a dealer.

YOU should use the search function to see the previous posts. You might find a serarch for "short ends" will lead you to some good posts.
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Rig Wheels Passport

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The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks