Jump to content


Photo

16mm chroma-keying


  • Please log in to reply
2 replies to this topic

#1 Niki Mundo

Niki Mundo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Student
  • Los Angeles

Posted 02 September 2007 - 06:28 PM

I've heard/read somewhere that it's not the best idea to use 16mm as a compositing capture format, in the same way I've heard miniDV is bad because of compression. Why is 16mm bad for compositing? Can I still try?

I also have a Konvas 35mm camera. I thought maybe I should use it to capture all the green screen actors and then use 16mm as source material ala' Star Wars 65mm for the special effects and 35mm for the real action.

Would 35mm/16mm look "better" than 16mm/16mm chroma-keying?
Just wondering..

Thanks!
Niki Mundo
  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20068 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 02 September 2007 - 08:53 PM

The problems with 16mm for chroma keys are mainly chattering edges of keys due to larger grain structure and the steadiness/registration problems both from the camera and the gate weave during the transfer, and general lack of sharpness.

So obviously the better the 16mm photography (slow film, sharp lenses, good camera registration) and post, the better the keys. Yes, I think shooting 35mm for the chroma key shots would be a good idea, assuming your 35mm camera has good registration.

The original reason for using larger negative spherical film formats (8-perf 35mm VistaVision and 5-perf 65mm Todd-AO/Super Panavision) for efx work in the 1970's and 1980's was to counteract the increase in graininess from optical printing using dupe elements, plus as a way of avoiding using anamorphic lenses for miniature work if the live action was shot in 35mm anamorphic.
  • 0

#3 John Brawley

John Brawley
  • Sustaining Members
  • 834 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Atlanta Georgia

Posted 03 September 2007 - 04:37 AM

I've heard/read somewhere that it's not the best idea to use 16mm as a compositing capture format, in the same way I've heard miniDV is bad because of compression. Why is 16mm bad for compositing? Can I still try?

I also have a Konvas 35mm camera. I thought maybe I should use it to capture all the green screen actors and then use 16mm as source material ala' Star Wars 65mm for the special effects and 35mm for the real action.

Would 35mm/16mm look "better" than 16mm/16mm chroma-keying?
Just wondering..

Thanks!
Niki Mundo



Hi Niki.

The main reason is the registration. Super 16 cameras are often not particularly steady meaning that the image moves around between each frame, making it hard to composite with other elements. Gate weave and roll cutting can also mean extra side to side movement.

I've found the Aatons in particularly steady in 16mm and have done some compositing with them but it's a bit hit and miss. The probelms can also sometimes be solved with good motion tracking and image stabilisation but it's not always possible.

jb
  • 0


Visual Products

CineTape

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Technodolly

CineLab

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

rebotnix Technologies

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks