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Red Lenses


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#1 Max Jacoby

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:50 PM

I had a look at the Sigma lens webpage recently and I found it interesting to note that they have several lenses that have the absolutely same characteristics as the Red lenses:

18-50mm F2.8 Macro Zoom lens with 7 iris blades

50-150mm F2.8 Zoom lens with 9 iris blades

300mm F2.8 telephoto lens with 9 iris blades
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#2 Gary McClurg

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:31 PM

There was a picture of a Cooke 300... I thought it looked a lot like the Red 300 as well..

I know that P & S new cine style lens are just retooled Zeiss still lens you can pick up for around $750 each if I remember right...

Or there is a guy I think he is RPLens... he retools Nikons to be cine lens to work with the Pro and Mini 35's from P & S...
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#3 Michael Collier

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:33 PM

Well Janard did tell us who hes got on staff...I didn't hear any opticle engeneers names dropped. Could be cause an OE isn't as sexy as an EE from AJA but who knows.

I would not be surprised if they are repackaging pre-produced lenses in PL, with slight modification to adjust the flange depth requirement (or maybe not...theres no opticle VF)

Sigma isn't terrible, I have a bunch of them for my SLR set. Definatley the best of the bargain basement lenses. Also I think sigma has the largest opticle glass factory in the world, so economies of scale is there. I think it may be cultural, anyone who has seen a japanees tourist knows what I am talking about. They don't carry Point and shoot cameras, they love their SLRS. and now DSLRs. Not trying to be offensive or stereotypical its just an observation (and actually I respect them for it...my entire extended family has nothing but PAS all day. They must love their pictures.) Perhaps that led sigma to be such a large lens company with low prices.

They are decent but they have flaws. They don't have any good coatings on those lenses. Flare is a constant concern when I slap my sig 28-70 or 70-300 macro. backlit situations take some thinking. Glass quality and construction is a bit lacking, but not horribly, I just don't get that 'built like a diamond' feeling a more costly lens has. I think for cinema use I will reserve judgement on RED lenses, since its speculation at best they are repackaged sigmas, but just wanted to throw my opinon on sigma as a lens company. As I said I do proudly own some sig still lenses.
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#4 Mitch Gross

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 11:42 PM

Nice detective work Max...
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 02:38 AM

Nice detective work Max...


Hi Mitch,

I checked out the Sigma 18-50 at a local photo store before coming to IBC, I think there is a good chance the lenses are related! The focus marks on the Red zoom are very well spaced, min focusing is 8' from film plane & about 1.5 inches from the front element.

There were no Red prime sets at IBC. Nothing in the Sigma line matches the specs for the primes!

Stephen
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#6 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 03:19 AM

Someone either here or on CML noted that the RED lens had 'Made In Britain' stamped on it
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#7 robert duke

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 06:38 AM

The sigma Lenses state that the lense will vingette when used with 35mm or oversized sensors. I dont think it is the same lens... but then again I am just a grip.
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#8 Max Jacoby

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 08:12 AM

The 35mm motion picture area is smaller than the 35mm stills area, as the former runs film vertically, the latter horizontally. So you can very well use these lenses on motion picture cameras including the Red.
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#9 Tim Pipher

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 09:13 AM

I assume I'm missing something here, but does that mean that I could buy the $670 lens from Sigma instead of the $7,500 18-50 mm zoom from Red and get similar or the same performance?
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 11:44 AM

I assume I'm missing something here, but does that mean that I could buy the $670 lens from Sigma instead of the $7,500 18-50 mm zoom from Red and get similar or the same performance?


Hi Tim,

The lens was built / rebuilt (in England?). The mechanical work alone would normally cost more than Red is charging, I don't think anybody can complain. Of course the Sigma idea is just speculation, I don't have a problem if it's true. There are no other PL mounted cine zooms anywhere near that price point.

Stephen
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#11 Tim Pipher

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 11:51 AM

Thanks Stephen. So you're saying the Sigma $670 lens couldn't be used as-is on the Red -- it would have to be modified, and that's where the expense comes in, correct?
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#12 Gary McClurg

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 11:55 AM

Thanks Stephen. So you're saying the Sigma $670 lens couldn't be used as-is on the Red -- it would have to be modified, and that's where the expense comes in, correct?


Giving all my secrets away... :(


Nah I posted it above... unless he has changed his prices... its $375 per lens...

www.rplens.com
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Stephen. So you're saying the Sigma $670 lens couldn't be used as-is on the Red -- it would have to be modified, and that's where the expense comes in, correct?


Hi,

As the Sigma does not have an F stop adjustment you could not use it at all right now. Birger engineering is proposing a mount with electronic controls, in the future it might be possible to use, how well it would work is at this time pure speculation!

Just to put lens modifications into perspective, Van Diemen make a beautiful re-house for a Cooke Series II / III prime lenses. The conversion costs £4500 /$9000 for the conversion of a single prime lens, the customer has to supply the original lens! Century Optics have also converted Nikon Zooms, the finished lens is about $18,500 more than 10 times the original lens.

For lenses to work well in a motion picture environment, mechanics are where a huge amount of money is spent.

Cooke make a small light weight zoom, price $45,000, expect very good performance & build quality, the Red Zooms seems a good value for money in comparison.


Stephen
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#14 Max Jacoby

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:35 PM

Cooke make a small light weight zoom, price $45,000, expect very good performance & build quality, the Red Zooms seems a good value for money in comparison.

Is that the 15-40mm T2? That's not a lot for such a high quality lens, I would have figured it to be more expensive.
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#15 Tim Pipher

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:36 PM

Hi,

As the Sigma does not have an F stop adjustment you could not use it at all right now. Birger engineering is proposing a mount with electronic controls, in the future it might be possible to use, how well it would work is at this time pure speculation!

Just to put lens modifications into perspective, Van Diemen make a beautiful re-house for a Cooke Series II / III prime lenses. The conversion costs £4500 /$9000 for the conversion of a single prime lens, the customer has to supply the original lens! Century Optics have also converted Nikon Zooms, the finished lens is about $18,500 more than 10 times the original lens.

For lenses to work well in a motion picture environment, mechanics are where a huge amount of money is spent.

Cooke make a small light weight zoom, price $45,000, expect very good performance & build quality, the Red Zooms seems a good value for money in comparison.
Stephen



Thanks Stephen. I figured I had to have this confused -- thanks for clearing this up!

Tim
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#16 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:11 PM

Is that the 15-40mm T2? That's not a lot for such a high quality lens, I would have figured it to be more expensive.


Hi Max,

They mentioned that on the stand yesterday, the $ price is slightly low due to exchange rates & will probably be increased.

Stephen
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#17 Max Jacoby

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:21 PM

Hi Stephen

Do you know the price in Euros?
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#18 Chris Keth

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:32 PM

I wonder how well matched sets of RED lenses will be. Still lens makers generally don't give it any thought and lenses within the same range can vary widely.
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#19 Stephen Williams

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:39 PM

Hi Stephen

Do you know the price in Euros?


Hi Max,

It was never mentioned, there may not be a euro price list. £25,000 I believe in UK

Stephen
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#20 Adam Dautry

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:39 PM

When did sigma start making lenses in the UK?

Les at cooke might tell you a different story...


you think your too cool for school, well ive got news for you walter cronkite..... you arent.
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