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HVX200 matched with the RED


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#1 Benjamin Smith

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 01:49 PM

I am doing a documentary in wich the interviews will be filmed with the HVX200 and the footage will be filmed on RED. Do you see any inherent problems with this other than the obvious 1080 to 4k difference. Will they match up at least decently?
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#2 John Sprung

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 02:15 PM

I am doing a documentary in wich the interviews will be filmed with the HVX200 and the footage will be filmed on RED. Do you see any inherent problems with this other than the obvious 1080 to 4k difference. Will they match up at least decently?

IIRC, the chip is actually only 540 x 960 on the HVX200. I guess you could degrade the Red stuff to match, but why not shoot it all on Red?



-- J.S.
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#3 Adam Thompson

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 02:30 PM

IMO I dont see any reason there would be a problem. I've seen plenty of interviews done on nice SD cams that cut well with anything else around it. The biggest reason for this is the fact that interviews are basically close ups that don't really move and that are highly controlled. And why on earth anyone would want to shoot an interview in UHD or 2 or 3.whatever K the red is, is beyond me. Anyone who has done it with 35mm or even S16 is usually adding diffusion somehow to lower the effect high res. images can have on a person in a still frame interview, even more so if its a female. As long as you arent blowing out their skin with some harsh spotlight, no one would ever know or care for that matter.
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#4 Benjamin Smith

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:43 PM

IIRC, the chip is actually only 540 x 960 on the HVX200. I guess you could degrade the Red stuff to match, but why not shoot it all on Red?
-- J.S.



I am not using the red on interviews because the interview itslef actually will consist of 7 cams and I don't have 7 red's. Do you have any other opinion o cams other than the HVX200 that would match better with red
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#5 Matthew Rogers

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:54 PM

IMO I dont see any reason there would be a problem. I've seen plenty of interviews done on nice SD cams that cut well with anything else around it. The biggest reason for this is the fact that interviews are basically close ups that don't really move and that are highly controlled. And why on earth anyone would want to shoot an interview in UHD or 2 or 3.whatever K the red is, is beyond me. Anyone who has done it with 35mm or even S16 is usually adding diffusion somehow to lower the effect high res. images can have on a person in a still frame interview, even more so if its a female. As long as you arent blowing out their skin with some harsh spotlight, no one would ever know or care for that matter.


Actually, if you are like me, one of the reasons for shooting such high resolution is that you get to use very nice cine lenses. They are going to be sharper, color rendition is going to be better, and you get a shallow depth of field easier. Plus, there's the fact that 4k downsampled to SD is going to look beautiful. In reality, it's all about having options.

Matthew
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#6 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:13 PM

why 7 cameras for the interview? that's a lot.
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#7 Gavin Greenwalt

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 05:48 PM

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I wouldn't want to intercut that.
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#8 Gavin Greenwalt

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 06:00 PM

why 7 cameras for the interview? that's a lot.


But with any less you wouldn't be able to do bullet-time at key talking points. :D

"I believe that the government shouldn't execute *BOOSHOOOOEEUUIII* (Spin around subject) *OOOOUIISHHHHH!!* prisoners without a having allowed a full appeal process to be carried out."
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#9 Adam Thompson

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:18 AM

I am not using the red on interviews because the interview itslef actually will consist of 7 cams and I don't have 7 red's. Do you have any other opinion o cams other than the HVX200 that would match better with red


Do you really have a choice when you need 7 cams? The HVX is the best overall of the toy cams. That seems kind of over the top though, just curious why. If you can afford it, maybe using Varicams or F900's would match better but that will be crazy rental $$.

What video cams were you comparing Gavin?
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#10 Mark Williams

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:20 AM

My DV camera takes better pictures than that? Surely thats an old VHS camera?
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#11 Häakon

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:33 AM

What video cams were you comparing Gavin?

RED footage is on the left, HVX on the right.
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#12 Alex D. da Silva

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:34 AM

RED footage is on the left, HVX on the right.



Hi Haakon,

I've just finished shooting a doc with the HVX and our footage looks quite good.
The RED fooatge will look much better granted but you should check your settings for the HVX.
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#13 Timur Civan

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:44 AM

Yea your HVX settings look WAY off. And were you downressing 4k, and Blowingup 1080? what exactly were you doing.... I understand youre making a point but something looks wrong there.
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#14 Erik Olson

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 12:07 PM

That frame grab from the HVX (if that's what that is on the right) is ridiculous. I don't buy it. I'm not arguing that the HVX would be the ideal camera to cut with 35mm or 4k, but that image is not properly focused or the backfocus is off or something. Like the VariCam, the HVX does resolve soft by comparison. This is a 1280 x 720 JPEG grab from the native MXF timeline with no correction.

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#15 Erik Olson

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 01:50 PM

With a cursory color curve application...

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#16 Tim Tyler

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 02:09 PM

The HVX doesn't look that bad. Not by a long shot.

Attached are a couple of stills from a PBS show I shot not long ago. These are completely unretouched 720P 24pN right from the MXF's.

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#17 Timur Civan

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 03:29 PM

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HVX200 720p AND a 35 adapter....... Looks pretty crisp to me.
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#18 John Sprung

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 05:45 PM

What these images prove is that we can't tell 4k Bayer from 1k three chip on our computer monitors. We're seeing the limits of the displays, not the cameras.



-- J.S.
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#19 Häakon

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 02:36 AM

Hi Haakon,

The RED fooatge will look much better granted but you should check your settings for the HVX.



Yea your HVX settings look WAY off.


Hi,

This was not my footage, I don't know the shooter, and I have no connection to this shoot. I simply was providing the requested information about what cameras were used to shoot each frame.

The shots were made publicly available on the REDUser website with some accompanying information here:

http://www.reduser.n...read.php?t=4552

According to the poster, their RED went down and the RED company was quick to provide a loaner camera, but they went ahead and tried to use an HVX in the meantime to avoid too much downtime. His posted workflow for the HVX clips was, "just opened HVX clips in FCP and exported PNG. Opened in photoshop to change image size to 1280." He then did a side-by-side of the HVX footage he shot and the RED footage he re-shot later, and the results are what you see above.

What these images prove is that we can't tell 4k Bayer from 1k three chip on our computer monitors. We're seeing the limits of the displays, not the cameras.
-- J.S.

If you can't tell the difference between those two images on your monitor, we've got a bigger problem than the limits of the displays...
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#20 Seung Han

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:04 AM

Those images are zoomed in and cropped in PSD to show the difference in resolution, which happens to be a lot...
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