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#1 Joseph Arch

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 12:16 AM

Hi
I am new here and just joined. I am in the process of learning the baisics just so I know how things work from a technical part. I am not a technical person, I just know what I can to help me.

I want to learn about Cinematography and the process one has to go through.

How would you get a certain look and feel to a film, what type of lenses would you use, what film stock gives what kind of look etc... I am a noob but still learning.


I would like to purchase a good camera with some lenses that can give me an almost film like look. I was going to buy the red.com but as I have read here that they are not shipping them yet. So, I am looking for an alternative. Since I don't know much about the technical side, I wanted to ask for some advice as to what would be a good camera with lenses.

My budget is $20,000. I hope that it's enough. I live in the US, Miami.

Looking forward to being a part of this great forum B)
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#2 Xavier Plaza

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 12:58 AM

Hi Theone and welcome... first you have to use your full name, it's a web rule. Second i believe when someone don't have any idea about something (in this case cameras) the first thing is search and read about what you want or all you want, in your case you can take long hours reading on this website about past topics. You can find a lot of quiktimes, jpg, stills, behind the scenes, etc. I think that, this would help you that you begin to handle the subject. Then you can make a more specific questions to any member in this website. Probably few persons agrees with me but not necessarily a good camera makes a good shot, i think is all about your talent (obviously there are so many cases...)


Hope Helps

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#3 Chris Keth

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:24 AM

Hi, Theone. I think you have a lot of work to do in the way of reading, asking questions, and making films. Twenty-grand is a lot of money and you can get some pretty awesome stuff within that budget. The caveat, though, is that a whole lot of crappy films get made with nice equipment. I guess what I'm saying is a filmmaking version of "the clothes don't make the man."
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#4 Joseph Arch

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:17 PM

Thanks for the reply but no one answered my question.

Where can I buy the cameras from? Which website?

I know how to shoot, edit etc... but I am not a cinematographer so the technical aspect is not my job. I want to know where I can buy good cameras from that give me an almost film like look. Something like the www.red.com

I was looking at some JVC cameras and they cost $10,000 which is a good price for what look I wanted to get. However, I know there a better ones out there. I have looked through the forum but still cannot find the answer.
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#5 David Auner aac

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the reply but no one answered my question.


Nobody answered your question because we can't. What do you want to shoot? Was is the look you are going for? Do you want to shoot digital or film? You need to give us more info before we can help you. Please change your screen name ot first & last name like Xavier said.

Cheers, Dave
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#6 Joseph Arch

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:11 PM

I changed it. I don't like to give out my name for people to see though.

I thought I was more specific but I guess not enough. I want to shoot digital I cannot afford film. I will be doing documentaries, broadcast on TV and short films. This is why I wanted to get a 16mm or even a 35mm digital if that is possible, to shoot what I want to achieve. I want to get as close to a film look as possible. I found a website but I wanted more options and also to know which camera would help me get what I wanted.

http://www.visualpro...ore02.asp?ID=12
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#7 Paul Nordin

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:37 PM

I want to shoot digital I cannot afford film. I will be doing documentaries, broadcast on TV and short films. This is why I wanted to get a 16mm or even a 35mm digital if that is possible, to shoot what I want to achieve. I want to get as close to a film look as possible. I
http://www.visualpro...ore02.asp?ID=12


Hi Joseph,

Welcome to the forum. Visual Products is a very good company to buy pro-quality used gear. There are others, but thats a fine place to start looking and figuring out what gear pros use. I think the biggest challenge you will have in creating a "film" look will not be your equipment. It will be your skills as a cinematographer. Any reasonable 3-chip camera which shoots 24P will do just fine. My personal opinion, and that of many others on this list, is it's your skill and talent at lighting which will give your projects a film look. I suggest you start by reading "Cinematography" by Brown. I also highly recommend that you work on a film or two as a PA or camera assistant and learn how all the gear is used and what value each item brings to composition. Once you have a basic understanding of the concepts, you will be able to make a much more informed decision about how to spend your $20k.

No matter what equipment you have, you will need a solid understanding of the concepts around cinematography to have the control of image necessary to create the looks you want. Without that knowledge and skill, you can spend $200k on equipment and still shoot footage that looks like crap.

Cheers,
Paul
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#8 David Auner aac

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 02:44 PM

I thought I was more specific but I guess not enough. I want to shoot digital I cannot afford film. I will be doing documentaries, broadcast on TV and short films. This is why I wanted to get a 16mm or even a 35mm digital if that is possible, to shoot what I want to achieve. I want to get as close to a film look as possible. I found a website but I wanted more options and also to know which camera would help me get what I wanted.


Hi Joseph,

first of all, there isn't such a thing as 16 or 35mm digital, strictly speaking.

There are however digital (video) formats that have sensor sizes close to the size of a 16mm frame or a 35mm frame. 16mm frame sizes most closely compares to 2/3" video cameras. The only 35mm equivalent that comes to mind right now is Arri's D20 which is way out of your budget.

So my suggestion is to look into SD and HD cameras that feature 2/3" sensors, such as e.g. Sony's DVCAM/XDCAM series or Panasonic's 2/3" DVCPRO cams.

Cheers, Dave
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#9 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 03:26 PM

I was going to buy the red.com but as I have read here that they are not shipping them yet.

Actually, they are shipping. There is a wait right now (not sure how long) but they have indeed delivered the first batch of cameras and will be delivering more soon.
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#10 Joseph Arch

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 03:55 PM

I do know how to shoot and make films. I just cannot tell what someone has used to make what. For example, what do they use to shoot nip/tuck? What kind of cameras, lenses etc...

I would just like to know where to get the equipment from. I come from a photography background so cinematography is not an alien form for me. I just dont know where to get the equipment from. What kind of camera I would need, I don't even know where to buy it from.


I am look at this camera
http://www.visualpro...p;Cat=12#bigPic

I can use it to make great looking films with the right lenses, filters and so on.


I have also been looking here
http://pro.jvc.com/p...p;feature_id=01



What I am trying to understand is how do you know which camera to buy. Where to buy it from plus the lenses, filters and anything else. People telling me to read this and read that but no one have given me direct links on where to go. I don't want to go into the technical side of cinematography.

I hope that was a bit more clear :P

Edited by Joseph Arch, 12 September 2007 - 03:58 PM.

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#11 Joseph Arch

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 04:12 PM

Follow up:

What does everyone trust?

Canon
JVC
Sony
Panasonic


I am looking for equipment that people trust with their lives and would not let them down.

Also, would a Film Adapter allow me to transfer 35mm slides or negatives to video, which can then be transferred to my computer or played back on my television?

If it can, then I could buy a used arri 16mm or 35mm.
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#12 Chris Keth

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 04:28 PM

Follow up:

What does everyone trust?

Canon
JVC
Sony
Panasonic
I am looking for equipment that people trust with their lives and would not let them down.

Also, would a Film Adapter allow me to transfer 35mm slides or negatives to video, which can then be transferred to my computer or played back on my television?

If it can, then I could buy a used arri 16mm or 35mm.


You can transfer film to video. I really, strongly (stronger than that!) suggest that you get a few books and do some reading. Otherwise there is a good chance you will be wasting a whole lot of money getting something you don't really want.

For instance, 20K will get you a quite nice used S16 package. Do you know what films costs? Do you know what processing and transfer cost?

Just the same, do you know the difference between the various SD and HD camera that are out? Do you even need HD for what you want? Do you want a 5K HVX or wait for a RED?

What about maintenance of whatever you get? A friend of mine has a very nice aaton 35 package and it gets a couple grand in service a year.

There are just way too many questions for us to answer without knowing where you stand in terms of experience, goals for your work, et cetera. You need to give us more information as well as inform yourself better so you're not at the mercy of a salesguy somewhere.
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#13 Tom Lowe

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 08:17 PM

For your purposes, you might want to look at an HVX200, perhaps, or something in that ballpark. 20 grand can get you a Red, but not soon, and it will only be the body, with no lenses... no nothing.

Based on your post it seems way too early for you to be investing in expensive stuff, IMO.
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#14 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 02:42 AM

For example, what do they use to shoot nip/tuck? What kind of cameras, lenses etc...

Well, you're asking about Nip/Tuck, which is shot on 35mm, and you're posting links to the XL1s, which is a prosumer camera that costs a few thousand dollars and doesn't look anything like 35mm. The cameras used on Nip/Tuck are completely the other end of the spectrum. Those cameras cost in the 100's of thousands of dollars. That's a big range.
You've posted links to cameras you're interested in, but you want to know where to get them online. Do a search. You'll find plenty of places selling them. The reason you're not getting more specific info is because you're not asking very specific questions.
To most people it appears that you don't have much experience and don't really know what you want or need. I think if you spend the time to learn, you'll have more of an idea of what you really need to shoot the kinds of projects you want to shoot.
You said this, "I don't want to go into the technical side of cinematography." If that's the case then you shouldn't be buying a camera. Cameras very much ARE the technical side of cinematography. If you want to avoid the technical side, then owning gear isn't for you.
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#15 Joseph Arch

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 12:25 PM

I think I am asking the wrong people. I know what I need and I know what I can do. Please don't tell me if I am good or not. I did not prove to you that I was nor did I prove to you that I was not. I asked one simple question. What is a good camera to use for my price range. I want to shoot documentaries and short films.

Not a complicated question.
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#16 Robert Hughes

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 01:10 PM

Go buy a RED. Then sell it to one of us after you get tired of it.
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#17 Joseph Arch

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 02:06 PM

Maybe I will.
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#18 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 03:33 PM

I think I am asking the wrong people. I know what I need and I know what I can do. Please don't tell me if I am good or not. I did not prove to you that I was nor did I prove to you that I was not. I asked one simple question. What is a good camera to use for my price range. I want to shoot documentaries and short films.

Not a complicated question.


Joseph,

You are talking to the right people! Believe me! You are talking to professional cinematographers for the most part, people making a living everyday in television, feature films, and every other area of the visual industry.
Try not to get tetchy! There is a wealth of information on this forum it would be shame to get yourself excluded.

When you say things like "I do know how to shoot and make films." Most people here will think "so what do you need us for?


As to your question, it really isn't just a matter of listing a number of camera's that would fit your needs, you can get that from any number of
camera suppliers.

As to trusting a brand! I trust myself, a camera is just a tool.



Best of Luck!

Kieran.

Edited by Kieran Scannell, 13 September 2007 - 03:36 PM.

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#19 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 05:13 PM

I think I am asking the wrong people.

If all you want is for people to tell you want you want to hear, then yes, you're definitely asking the wrong people.

I know what I need and I know what I can do.

Then why are you asking? If you know what you need, then go out and buy it.

Please don't tell me if I am good or not.

No one has made any determination of whether you are "good" or not, whatever that means.

I asked one simple question. What is a good camera to use for my price range. I want to shoot documentaries and short films.
Not a complicated question.

If you think it's not a complicated question then you obviously don't know what you're talking about. This camera is in your price range:
Posted Image
so is this one:
http://i9.ebayimg.co.../8b/7b4f_12.JPG
Go make a short film or doc.
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#20 Joseph Arch

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 05:31 PM

@ Brad

Why is it everyone is calm when addressing me but you want to be a degenerate prick.

You are a steadycam operator. That is all you will ever be.





I appriciate all the advice people have given me. If anyone has anymore, please add it.


Thanks
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