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Lighting advices for this location?


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#1 Tebbe Schoeningh

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 09:37 PM

Hello!

We´ll be shooting a 5 min-shortfilm at the Morón airbase and the director would like to open the film with a wide-angle shot of the main lobby.
I´m kind of worried about the background because it´s a 30X20m window where you see the runway and a lot of sky, in a way it´s like a huge backlight...
Although we´re shooting on film (Kodak 7205 250D) I´m kind of worried, that our lighting equipment is not enough for a key and fill to compensate the windows in the background. We´ll have Tungsten units only (1X 5KW Fresnel, 2X 2 KW Fresnel, 2X 1KW Fresnel, 2X 2KW Open, 2X 1KW Open, 2X 650W Fresnel, 2X 300W Fresnel).

Due to depth-of-field I want to work around f 8 or 11. I think that might help to bring down the sky. Although I want the light sources to be quiet soft, I´d rather prefer to bring them in directly with White Difusion than indirectly with bounce-cards...

It might be possible that we can change some units for a Maxibrute.

I´ll attach a foto of the main lobby of the main lobby. Thanks for any advice and your help!

Tebbe
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#2 edward read

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 09:59 PM

Wait for late afternoon when the sun will be at the same colortemp as your lights and wait for the outside to come down in exposure to match what you can bring in. Get the maxi brute and shoot it through some lite diffusion or bounce it into an 8x8 white muslin or grifflyn. A late afternoon with a hazy sunshine would be perfect. Shoot the wide shot at a completely different time as the rest of your scene so that you don't have the stress of having to make the shot fit into the A unit schedule. Don't worry, the audience will completely buy the differences in the two shots. They're not that sophisicated.




Hello!

We´ll be shooting a 5 min-shortfilm at the Morón airbase and the director would like to open the film with a wide-angle shot of the main lobby.
I´m kind of worried about the background because it´s a 30X20m window where you see the runway and a lot of sky, in a way it´s like a huge backlight...
Although we´re shooting on film (Kodak 7205 250D) I´m kind of worried, that our lighting equipment is not enough for a key and fill to compensate the windows in the background. We´ll have Tungsten units only (1X 5KW Fresnel, 2X 2 KW Fresnel, 2X 1KW Fresnel, 2X 2KW Open, 2X 1KW Open, 2X 650W Fresnel, 2X 300W Fresnel).

Due to depth-of-field I want to work around f 8 or 11. I think that might help to bring down the sky. Although I want the light sources to be quiet soft, I´d rather prefer to bring them in directly with White Difusion than indirectly with bounce-cards...

It might be possible that we can change some units for a Maxibrute.

I´ll attach a foto of the main lobby of the main lobby. Thanks for any advice and your help!

Tebbe


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#3 Logan Schneider

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 01:36 AM

I think the lobby looks beautiful with no light. You could put up a 12x12 bounce to add a little more detail, but overall you may not need to light anything. You could even do a silhouette. Don't be afraid to not light. Why fight nature?
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#4 Shane Bartlett

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 08:41 AM

I agree that the natural look shown in the picture is quite nice. But perhaps that look does not suit your story.

I think, in a normal situation, you should need about 300-350 footcandles to get a good exposure at f8.0 (please someone correct me if I'm wrong). Of course, in this situation you would need to adjust that figure up or down depending on what you're getting from the windows and according to the ratio suitable for your story.

I can't tell from the picture, but most airport windows are tinted. That should help, as it sounds like you want to preserve exterior detail. I would get in there under several daylight conditions (clear sunny sky, strong direct sunlight through the window, overcast, etc) and take some readings to see what that window does compared to the light you're getting in the subject position.

Airport personnel post 9/11 generally want you out of there quickly, unless you're big budget and have the apparent legitimacy of studio backing. A crew and lots of heavy equipment tends to make them nervous, and they can't relax even a little until they see your taillights. Because of this, despite having permission to bring in some equipment, when I shot in an airport I used only the natural light and small bounce cards. An Ultra Contrast 3 really helped.
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#5 John Holland

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 10:41 AM

Which way does the window face ? do you know ?
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#6 Tebbe Schoeningh

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 12:09 PM

First at all, thank you for your advices.

@edward:

actually we want to shoot it at late afternoon, because the windows face west. i don´t have a colormeter, so i won´t be able to measure light temperature. is there any way to measure the general light temperature anyway?
what exactly is muslin and gryffin?

@logan

i think you´re right. the lobby looks beautiful with natural light. anyway, the script and the directors idea of the image is not "natural" or "realistic" at all. there will be mainly a almost monochromatic look, only the main characters dress will pop-out. it´s a pink dancers-dress...

@shane

the airbase where we´ll shoot was built in the late 40´s and windows seem to be the same as 60 years ago. most of them are not tinted, they changed some and they look quiet greenish. if you have a close look at the picture, yo can see that some of them are coulured, some no. i hope that i´ll be able to correct that in post. if possible, i´ll go there and take some readings. there is no problem at all with the airport authorities, because the airport is kind of closed. there is an airbase of the argentinian air-force, and they will "park" some airplanes in the background for us ;)

@john
the window faces west.

have you any suggestions to make the color of the dress pop-out? might it be useful to bring some more light to the area where the main character is located and slightly overexpose her?

thanks again, everybody!

tebbe
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#7 Nook Kim

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 10:20 AM

Hi,

Regarding making the subject pop out, have you considered having the background (exterior through the window)
over-exposed? You mentioned there will be some air-plains seen outside the window, so this may not help you at all,
but I thought I'd bring it up.

As others have suggested, depending on the camera angle, it sounds like you could use the sun light hitting the subject
as your key/kick and fill it with bounced light off of bounce cards, muslin, etc. By the way, muslins are white cloth
material you can get from fabric stores or online. Googling the word should bring up more than a few online stores
that carry different types (transparency, etc) of muslin. They might also be cheaper than local stores and also carry
large sizes.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Nook Kim
www.nookkim.com

Edited by Nook Kim, 20 September 2007 - 10:21 AM.

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#8 darrin p nim

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 03:56 PM

Do you have ND? Enough to cover that wall of windows? You can try to bring down the exposure of the windows and that can enable you to have effective light output from your hotlights. I wouldnt suggest using your hotlights anyways, considering matching color temp with them either limits your time frame or cuts the intensity of the lights. What's runs parrallel with the windows? Is it a wall? Most likely not from what i read but a large bounce source can effectively utilise the existing daylight to give you what you need.
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#9 Hans Engstrom

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 05:57 PM

Covering the 30x20m window with ND would break the budget on most 5 min shorts.
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#10 darrin p nim

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 07:34 PM

Covering the 30x20m window with ND would break the budget on most 5 min shorts.


i wasn't completely thinking logisitically but i think the point still stands, if it werent for budget.
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#11 Tebbe Schoeningh

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 08:37 AM

sorry, guys, but covering the windows will be completely out of budget ;)
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:03 AM

You're essentially shooting a day exterior indoors -- you need large bounces, reflectors, and HMI's. Tungstens are pretty much useless unless they are huge.
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