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Alternative to Krasnogorsk-K3 ???


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#1 Wes Broadhurst

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 01:58 PM

Was wondering what are some other cheap 16mm and S16mm cameras are

other than the Krasnogorsk-3. All I keep hearing about is the K3,

What are other solid cameras in that lower end price range?
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 02:37 PM

Take a look at the web site below to find out lots of information about the Arriflex 16S, 16S/B and 16M cameras. They are a little more expensive than the K3, but in a whole different league as far as quality goes, and as far as accessories and lenses availability, etc.

Arri16S.com

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Tim
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#3 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 04:55 PM

A good and cheap alternative to the K-3 is the Beaulieu R16. I'm always seeing these cameras on ebay and for a pretty decent price as well.

Also, the Bolex H16 is a good Swiss built camera that will run you around $500 on ebay for a well kept model.
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#4 John Sprung

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 06:44 PM

These are all cameras that I was using 30+ years ago. The Beaulieus were fussy and unreliable even when they were new. The Bolex was quite good, and the Arri by far the most robust.





-- J.S.
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#5 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:01 PM

If you're looking for cheap there's a Kiev 16ue made in Russia that has a reflex viewfinder and a rotating 3 lens turret. Never used one, but the motorized version might be worth checking out. Probably could be found for less than $125.

If you're not concered about changing out lenses or Super 16, the Canon Scoopic 16mn is a GREAT camera for someone starting out. It even has a generally reliable built-in meter and automatic exposure. It's motorized so you don't have to constantly wind the thing. They go for about $400-$700 on eBay usually. The built in lens is actually really good in the middle f-stop range.

The Arriflex 16S, 16S/B and 16M would be a really good investment and something that could grow with you but they will cost you more than the ones listed above and are somewhat less portable.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:07 PM

The Arriflex 16S, 16S/B and 16M would be a really good investment and something that could grow with you but they will cost you more than the ones listed above and are somewhat less portable.


Will,

How could you be any more portable than an Arriflex 16S with a 100 ft internal load? :unsure:

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-Tim
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#7 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:09 PM

Will,

How could you be any more portable than an Arriflex 16S with a 100 ft internal load? :unsure:

-Tim


I agree with you, Tim, that the 16S is portable. However, that camera is considerably more pricey than the Beaulieu, Bolex, Scoopic, or K3. I wish I had a 16 S, especially in the condition yours is in. Interested in selling?

Matthew
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 08:22 PM

Interested in selling?


Nah, it's my baby. Thanks for the compliments though.

They are a bit more pricey, but you do get what you pay for. The majority of the clips at the web site below were shot with my camera pictured above, and it's now over fifty years old.

Clips shot with the Arriflex 16S

Posted Image

-Tim
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#9 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 09:00 PM

The majority of the clips at the web site below were shot with my camera pictured above, and it's now over fifty years old.


-Tim


Absolutely beautiful image quality. You use fine optics indeed. If you ever move past 16mm, send me a quote on that cherry cam STAT.
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#10 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 09:20 PM

If you ever move past 16mm, send me a quote on that cherry cam STAT.


I've been shooting 35mm of late, but the camera above is one I plan on keeping until the day I pass. I will leave instructions in my will to contact you when they liquidate my estate (which will probably consist of nothing more than a dozen antique motion picture and still cameras :rolleyes: ).

I am always looking for diamonds in the rough, and found one with that camera.

But you can get the same image quality from any Arriflex 16S or S/B if it's serviced and set back to factory specs (which I can do for you just like I serviced and set the camera pictured above), and you use good glass. Some of the best footage on the above linked web page was shot with Cooke Kinetal lenses that were less than $300 each, and they still make fabulous images if they are set up properly (which I can also do for you).

-Tim
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#11 Ben Trettel

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 11:02 PM

I've been happy enough with my Kodak K100 to recommend it.

While non-reflex, the viewfinder is bright and you can see around the area you are shooting, which is more valuable than you may think. The Kodak Ektar lenses are the best you can get for the price. The camera takes C-mount lenses, so you have many choices for cheap. The spring-drive is probably the best of any spring-drive camera, allowing for nearly a minute of continuous shooting at 24 FPS. Winding is easy. The camera itself is a rock-solid piece of machinery. Kodak's quality control was great. The same can not be said about the Krasnogorsk.

The disadvantages are non-reflex viewing with harder to find viewfinder lenses and the lack of a standard cable release. The trick is to have an SLR still camera, focus with that, and then copy the focus distance to the K100's lens. Or you can use a measuring tape. Relying on a bit of depth of field and you shouldn't have a problem. If you want the confidence that reflex viewing brings, this camera isn't for you.

I'm just getting into 16mm from still photography, so I did a lot of research before deciding on a camera to buy. This camera combines low price with a good amount of features. My camera was $80 including shipping on eBay and it included 3 lenses. Recently one went for less than $50, but it was the non-turret version. They appear fairly regularly on eBay, but they're not as common as a Filmo or Bolex. Right now there are a couple on eBay.

What costs the most in the end is film stock, so I only intend to get introduced to 16mm with my K100. Once I get a better camera, my K100 might be used when a second camera is needed.
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#12 Herb Montes

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 07:04 AM

If you're looking for cheap there's a Kiev 16ue made in Russia that has a reflex viewfinder and a rotating 3 lens turret. Never used one, but the motorized version might be worth checking out. Probably could be found for less than $125.

If you're not concered about changing out lenses or Super 16, the Canon Scoopic 16mn is a GREAT camera for someone starting out. It even has a generally reliable built-in meter and automatic exposure. It's motorized so you don't have to constantly wind the thing. They go for about $400-$700 on eBay usually. The built in lens is actually really good in the middle f-stop range.

The Arriflex 16S, 16S/B and 16M would be a really good investment and something that could grow with you but they will cost you more than the ones listed above and are somewhat less portable.


I have a Kiev 16UE with the electric motor. There's a spring drive version as well. It takes decent images but not very steady ones. I can see some jitter in a few scenes in the test roll I shot. It has a mirrored shutter and the image path goes though a hinged mirror that swings out of the way when the turret is turned. Needless to say the reflex image is not exact because of this. So I wouldn't use this camera for close-up work like filming animation. It's very noisy, much more so than a Bolex.
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