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Bulk rolling 35mm Motion Picture film for Still Photography?


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#1 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 02:50 AM

I was just wondering if anyone has any experience in doing this. I figured it would be a good economical method for learning the nuances of various motion picture film stocks.

I suppose I'd need a larger bulk loader, looks like most of them only take 100' rolls. But any guidance from those who've done it will be greatly appreciated.
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#2 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 03:55 AM

i did in the past shot stills with short ends if it's what you mean?
you have to process it yourself or with a film lab but then you have a neg !
there is no way you can make a contact print yourself and any scan you do will be a homemade teleciné so nothing to compare with (in the motion picture world)
you can go for paper print thow.
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#3 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 11:10 AM

Yeah, I was thinking of just getting some 100' short ends from raw-stock, they're like $16 each or something. Shouldn't be a problem hand processing it.

But no, yeah, I was just going to hand process them and do some basic prints...nothing I planned on projecting. I was thinking of getting some reversal stock as well and cutting some slides.

We'll see, I'll probably get on it in a couple weeks.

Edited by Jonathan Bowerbank, 28 September 2007 - 11:13 AM.

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#4 Jon Kukla

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 02:11 PM

This is one of those things I keep on planning to do and never get around to. I even have the bulk loader already...

If you're on shoots frequently, it generally isn't too hard to ask the loader to save sub-100' shortends of 35mm; often they're junked anyway once they hit below 100-150 feet.
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#5 Toby L Edwards

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 02:38 PM

Jonathan'
You can order pre rolled on a 35mm cassette for use in your 35mm SLR from CERTIFIED FILM and there are still a couple of labs around the country that will process and print. Let me know if you need the name of a lab. Also I picked up a Bulk loader(100ft daylight spool) on Ebay for $20.00 so you can do it yourself if you want. Hope this helps.
CERTIFIED also sells short ends and recans.
Good luck
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#6 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 03:03 PM

Yeah, I was thinking of just getting some 100' short ends from raw-stock, they're like $16 each or something. Shouldn't be a problem hand processing it.

But no, yeah, I was just going to hand process them and do some basic prints...nothing I planned on projecting. I was thinking of getting some reversal stock as well and cutting some slides.

We'll see, I'll probably get on it in a couple weeks.


Jonathan,

How does that work exactly? You put a short end of 35mm into a still camera and process in a dark room as normal? could you explain? sounds interesting, never done that, is it like snip tests where you snip the front end of the roll to gauge the process your looking for?

Kieran.
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#7 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 05:48 PM

How does that work exactly?


I found a good step by step example of how it's done on some guy's Flickr gallery:



It's a pretty simple process, it's just a matter of getting the loader, walkin' down to Walgreens and taking the empty canisters and getting the stock.
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#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 05:50 PM

Jonathan'
You can order pre rolled on a 35mm cassette for use in your 35mm SLR from CERTIFIED FILM


Thanks Toby! I'll consider them, but I would prefer doing the cassette loading myself to save some dough :)
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#9 Toby L Edwards

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 06:16 PM

I found a good step by step example of how it's done on some guy's Flickr gallery:



It's a pretty simple process, it's just a matter of getting the loader, walkin' down to Walgreens and taking the empty canisters and getting the stock.


New Canisters?
I could be wrong but it is my understanding that the cassettes get destroyed at Walgreen's when they open them. The end cap bent up pretty good!
I buy them at my local Camera store, there like a buck each. $1.00 and they are reusable and blank so you can label them.
But hey if I'm wrong, free from Walgreen's is cool.
Good luck
Toby
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#10 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 07:10 PM

New Canisters?
I could be wrong but it is my understanding that the cassettes get destroyed at Walgreen's when they open them. The end cap bent up pretty good!

A long time ago when the earth was green, every brand of film but Kodak came in cassettes that had removable end caps. Kodak prefered the "staked" style that make it hard for the cap to come off. this is an advantage if you drop your film, the snap-on caps would sometimes come off, the staked caps don't. With film now coming with DX coding and fewer suppliers, all the brands seem to have migrated to the staked style.

Minilabs normaly just extract the film through the felt lighttrap and so they don't open the cassettes. I have heard of folks just splicing the film to the stub still on the cassette, but I doubt that that method would be satisfactory.

On this topic it proably would not hurt to remind folks that the Black REM-Jet on movie film is NOT compatible with a minilab, and will efffectivly destroy their entire batch of chemicals. If you develop it at home you will have to use the ONE_SHOT method, and be very careful to get all the Black off when the film is still wet, and avoid tranfering any to the image side.

On a positive note, there is an loader called the "alden74" which will take a 200 ft load., that can accomidate a short end on a core. There were probaly others.
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#11 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 07:20 PM

On a positive note, there is an loader called the "alden74" which will take a 200 ft load., that can accomidate a short end on a core. There were probaly others.


(for some reason I could not edit my message?)

I just wanted to add that judging from a search on rge great american auction site, there were 100 fto only versions of the Alden 74. Perhaps the 200 ft version I have is actually rare?
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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 08:32 PM

You can get 100 foot short-ends of 35mm motion picture film for sixteen dollars?

Sob. Wail.

At that price it is actually quite legitimately worth importing the !*&$ing stuff.

Phil
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#13 Chris Keth

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Posted 28 September 2007 - 11:19 PM

How do you intend to process it? The only place that did it in small quantities closed a while back. Hand processing of any color film is pretty tricky since it's so temperature sensitive.
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#14 stephen defilippi

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 05:12 PM

Jonathan,

How does that work exactly? You put a short end of 35mm into a still camera and process in a dark room as normal? could you explain? sounds interesting, never done that, is it like snip tests where you snip the front end of the roll to gauge the process your looking for?

Kieran.



Hi Keiran,

be careful there. i think color film has lead in the base and so need to be processed by a lab that can clear that. you should be able to process it in a cine lab. sometimes the perforation pitch is different, i noticed that in my nikons, it still worked but i was hesitant to shoot at high speed.

as for black and white, you can do that at home. its very easy, i do it all the time

i bought 800 feet of tri-x from a short end seller for 35 bucks and the stock looks great.

good luck

stephen
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#15 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 05:36 AM

Just curious, what do you think might happen if instead of ECN-2 processing, I put it through C-41 processing? What do you suppose might happen? I've read about people just processing reversal film with C-41 and then removing the rem-jet afterwards.
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#16 Josh Fritts

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 10:37 AM

A & I photography laboratory in Hollywood can process and print stills from motion picture stocks. They are trying to bring back what RGB was doing a couple of years ago. I think they sale motion picture stock that is already loaded into 35mm still canisters as well.


Their website:

http://www.aandi.com/
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#17 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 11:51 AM

Thanks Josh! I suppose I'll have to inquire about their pricing. Would it be $15 per roll? Or a certain sized batch? Hmmm

If it's per roll, it's well worth it for me to just shoot 100' of 16mm instead :)
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#18 Delorme Jean-Marie

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 12:11 PM

when you process with E6 with C 41 note that it'll take 2 stops and you'll have something like a bleach by-pass but we are talking still photography here not motion picture film.
great images thow, super deep blacks and verry saturated reds, greens and blues from what i experimented.
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#19 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 07:02 PM

Just curious, what do you think might happen if instead of ECN-2 processing, I put it through C-41 processing? What do you suppose might happen? I've read about people just processing reversal film with C-41 and then removing the rem-jet afterwards.


The rem jet is generaly only found on Movie film, or Kodachrome. (I think the VNF had it sometimes but I am not sure)

IT will leave some of itself in the chemicals, so using C-41 you have to use it "one Shot" or throw away the chemicals after each roll/batch. You will have a bit of a mess getting the black off, and some folk report it staying permanatly if it gets on the emusion during the attempt to get it off the base.

the process is simalr enough otherwise that you will get images, although the colour will be a bit off. If you can get it run as movie film you will get better results, but 6 ft lenghts are a pain for a movie lab to bother with.
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#20 K Borowski

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 07:04 PM

It's easy to do. I have two bulk loaders I don't need, BTW, so if anyone wants one (two?) it is yours for shipping. Email me. .. .


I'd recommend finding a cine lab to do it for you, as since the one lab in Cally closed only A&I does it for short-rolled 35mm still cassettes, and they seem to charge an absolute fortune for it. I imagine one could sweet-talk a movie lab into running short lengths at the very end of the day after all their important footage has gone through. Getting it printed might be more difficult. YOu'd porbably need to find a lab that has Vistavision printers to get individually color corrected slides (film prints) from 8-perf ECN-2 negatives. Reallistically, the best I'd hope for is a one-light print from a bulk loaded roll.
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