Jump to content


Photo

Blade Runner: The Final Cut


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:29 PM

Saw this today at the Landmark Cinema, projected using the Sony 4K, though I read that the DCI master was 2K, from the 4K restoration, so I don't know if I saw 4K or 2K-to-4K being projected.

Looked stunning, the best I've ever seen the movie look.

Now I must admit that over the years, I've seen this movie in all sorts of quality levels and formats. I moved to Los Angeles in August of 1982 to go to UCLA, and caught "Blade Runner" for the first time at the tail end of its run, at the tiny shoebox cinema of the Beverly Center's Cineplex. Not the ideal way of seeing it.

Then I used to see it at midnight movie screenings and over at the Beverly Cinema in a beat-up 35mm scope print.

Then I saw the 70mm print (off of the original negative) that was discovered in a vault, of a preview audience cut, with a temp music score, the only 70mm print ever made of "Blade Runner", at least in the U.S. The print was duped to 35mm anamorphic and released at the Nuart a year later (and looked "dupey"), and the success of that prompted the "director's cut" that next appeared.

Years later I saw this 70mm "preview audience" print at the Cinerama Dome, now pink-faded. I was a little shocked that they were still renting out this print, being one of its kind.

The new version looks amazing, and I was glad that the 4K D.I. retained the grain structure of the 5247 film stock, although a few shots looked sharpened, and the efx were less grainy than ever because they went back to the original 65mm composites, pre-duping to 35mm, and scanned those (Trumbull back then would shoot efx in 65mm and then composite them to 65mm and then dupe the finished composite to 35mm anamorphic at an outside facility -- it wasn't until Edlund took over that a 65mm-to-35mm printer was built over there, and used on "2010" and "Ghostbusters".)

The black levels of the Sony 4K projector could be better... but it wasn't as distracting as it was when I saw "Dr. Strangelove" there in 4K.
  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:40 PM

This isn't really a spoiler -- it's a 25-year-old movie...

OK, if according to Ridley Scott, Deckard is supposedly a replicant (hinted at by the unicorn dream)... then why would the Tyrell Corporation design a replicant-hunting cop replicant who is physically weaker than every replicant he goes out to kill??? Deckard gets the crap beat out of him by every replicant he meets except Rachel!
  • 0

#3 Adam Thompson

Adam Thompson
  • Sustaining Members
  • 161 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:53 PM

Oh man I wish I could have seen that! I've never been able to see it in a theater. Do you know if a new print will be making rounds?

That's a good point.... maybe Tyrell would purposely do that to make sure their "children" live on in a way? Or could it be that he was a early design that isn't as strong? I guess you can fill in reasons when need be... something in me thinks maybe Ridley did that either without thinking it through or is just trying to screw with people.
  • 0

#4 Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Director
  • somewhere worshipping Terrence Malick

Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:19 PM

Saw this today at the Landmark Cinema, projected using the Sony 4K, though I read that the DCI master was 2K, from the 4K restoration, so I don't know if I saw 4K or 2K-to-4K being projected.


Any way to find out the answer to this?
  • 0

#5 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 08 October 2007 - 09:35 PM

This isn't really a spoiler -- it's a 25-year-old movie...

OK, if according to Ridley Scott, Deckard is supposedly a replicant (hinted at by the unicorn dream)... then why would the Tyrell Corporation design a replicant-hunting cop replicant who is physically weaker than every replicant he goes out to kill??? Deckard gets the crap beat out of him by every replicant he meets except Rachel!


If you were super strong, resilient and the rest compared to everyone else around you you'd start to think about it no ?
  • 0

#6 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 October 2007 - 10:27 PM

If you were super strong, resilient and the rest compared to everyone else around you you'd start to think about it no ?


Since replicants are illegal on Earth, is the Tyrell Corporation selling them illegally to the police and whatnot? Or are they sneaking them into the workforce? But what's the point of making a replicant like Deckard, not telling him that he's a replicant, then making him a replicant hunter?
  • 0

#7 Justin Hayward

Justin Hayward
  • Sustaining Members
  • 928 posts
  • Director
  • Chicago, IL.

Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:13 PM

Since replicants are illegal on Earth, is the Tyrell Corporation selling them illegally to the police and whatnot? Or are they sneaking them into the workforce? But what's the point of making a replicant like Deckard, not telling him that he's a replicant, then making him a replicant hunter?


I was always under the impression he was an older version, before they put the four year life expectancy on the replicants and they used the older models to destroy the newer ones.
  • 0

#8 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:35 PM

Since replicants are illegal on Earth, is the Tyrell Corporation selling them illegally to the police and whatnot? Or are they sneaking them into the workforce? But what's the point of making a replicant like Deckard, not telling him that he's a replicant, then making him a replicant hunter?


Well, one reason I suppose was to make the basis of a good film that happened to transcend most the potential flaws of its internal logic ;)

I haven't read the book, however its kind of redundant as we are discussing the film - so, hmmmm - I dont think it would be a far stretch to say that Tyrell Corp probably had its finger in the political pie and could experiment with relative impunity on it replicants by placing them in the wider community to see how far they could go before making the connection that they weren't actual humans ...

I suppose if they were worried about the 'candle burns twice as bright' replicants why not make some extra Blade Runners ?

Was it actually Tyrell we met at the beginning of the film ? (or a sort of Smithers character :lol: ) I cant remember exactly as I haven't seen it in a few years, but regardless if I recall he seemed like a rather philosophical type, not one to shy away from setting up a voyeuristic game of chess between his creations ...
  • 0

#9 Felipe Perez-Burchard

Felipe Perez-Burchard
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 130 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles, CA USA / Mexico D.F., Mexico

Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:57 AM

I saw it at the Landmark on Saturday... WOW!!!

Unlike David, the only way I've seen the film has been on Mexican TV long ago (cropped to 4:3), on the Laserdisc director's cut, the DVD (actually the reason I bought a DVD player back in the day) which looks similar to the Laster disc as it was one of the first DVDs available - and quite compressed, and the original theatrical release years later on the sci-fi channel...

So to see on the BIG screen, in 4k projection (whatever the method may be) was a COMPLETELY NEW experience for me - it literally changed the film for me... and it was already on my top 10 films of all time list, but it's truly a film made for the big screen, the Trumblall Scope "Landscapes" are packed with details that before I hadn't ever seen, and a lot of compositions have a lot more going on than you see in the background or foreground and because of this, it changes the pace too ; lot of people I've heard complain about the pace (which I personally love), but now I realize its because people aren't seeing it the way it was intended, because now I felt the shots couldn't be held any less time because there was so much to look at.

The ultimate atmospheric movie, because I believe everything -- usually I look at movies today, and the moment I see the wide shot with the big CG composite it takes me out of the story because its too jarring / too artificial / poorly comped, this film is 25 years old, and everything seems seamless - people should pay more attention to doing work like this.
The emotions felt even better conveyed...

I guess I'm just ranting ; I loved it !!!
For those in LA , you CANNOT miss it... I hope I can catch it again (Im out of town now) - I heard it will only play for a week, so hurry!!

One Question:
Did they add more "Jaguar eyes" that in the original cut, or had I missed how many there are before?

Regarding Deckards true origin: I don't think the new cut makes it more or less ambiguois and I like it that way... the things that to me indicate that he might be a replicant are less the unicorn and more the implications of: "I dream the music" , "have you ever retired a human by mistake" , and "...but then again who does"

thanks.

Best,

-felipe.

Edited by Felipe Perez-Burchard, 09 October 2007 - 01:00 AM.

  • 0

#10 Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Director
  • somewhere worshipping Terrence Malick

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:31 AM

Damn, I have to go see this! How long is it playing there?
  • 0

#11 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:41 AM

Damn, I have to go see this! How long is it playing there?


Maybe only thru Thursday, so hurry.
  • 0

#12 Steven Parker

Steven Parker
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chicago

Posted 09 October 2007 - 01:41 PM

IF Deckard really is a replicant, maybe he's not a military design like Batty and Zhora. Originally a political liaison? Diplomatic/intelligence service? That could explain the lack of physical prowess and seemingly above-average detective skills.
  • 0

#13 Leo Anthony Vale

Leo Anthony Vale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2010 posts
  • Other
  • Pittsburgh PA

Posted 09 October 2007 - 02:17 PM

I haven't read the book, however its kind of redundant as we are discussing the film -


It's been along since I have; but...

SPOILER ALERT

...Deckard keeps a real goat on the roof of his apartment building.
Rachel, who is as much a sociopath as all the other replicants, pushes it off the roof to spite Dekard, then escapes.

Deckard wanders through the desert disspairing. He comes across atortoise and is overjoyed to find an actual living thing.
He picks it up and finds a Tyrell logo on its belly.

There's a big difference in the attitude toward the replicants in the book and movie.
Dick saw them as mirrors of the rising number af sociopaths in society, as such replicants are evil.
In the movie they are sympathetic victims.
  • 0

#14 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:35 PM

The book suggest that the defining human quality, which replicants lack, is empathy. There is a moment in the book where Pris, I think, is pulling the legs off of a spider that suggests her lack of empathy. So ultimately replicants aren't "human" in the book, whereas the movie suggests that they more or less are.
  • 0

#15 Vincent Sweeney

Vincent Sweeney
  • Sustaining Members
  • 686 posts
  • Director
  • LA at the moment.

Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:39 PM

I've used this film as a reference when trying to convey the importance of sound design to someone unknowing. It is one of the most explicit examples of how to use sound in film. Try watching without it for just one minute.
  • 0

#16 Michel Hafner

Michel Hafner
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 300 posts
  • Other

Posted 10 October 2007 - 05:39 AM

The digital screenings are from a 2K master. No 4K for now. So the HD release will look quite similar.
  • 0

#17 A. Whitehouse

A. Whitehouse
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 267 posts
  • Director
  • Melbourne

Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:55 AM

My favorite film. Im a huge P. K. Dick fan, the book is quite different. As far as incongruities in the film goes Ill give my own perspective. In the directors cut Deckard is clearly a replicant and Ridley Scott has said as much. There are several clues.

The Unicorn Dream, Deckard's "Theme" animal. This is taken somewhat from the book where humans are distinguished from Replicants in their ability to emphasize with one another and animals. They participate in a religion in which they use a machine to share the experience of their Martyr who is stoned to death at the hands of his community. In the film characters are related to animals but not in a literal way. When the Blade Runner at the end makes a match stick Unicorn it suggests an awareness of his designed memories.

Similar to this there is the scene between Rachel and Deckard where he exposes her intimate memories and she becomes resigned to her existence. She then turns on Rick and tries to pick holes in him, she plays a tune on the piano which seems familiar to him and lets her hair down like the picture of his relative. She looks nearly identical and this suggests something about the pool of memories which their designers draw from to build the individual.

Reflective eyes. The Voight Kompf exposes Replicants by triggering an emotional response and unconscious dilation of the pupil. Several Replicants have reflective eyes in the film, you'll spot it even in the animals. Even Tyrell their "creator" wears reflective glasses which can be read into in a variety of ways. Also when the Replicants arrive on earth they murder the designer of their eyes in his shop. Their is an un filmed scene in the script behind Tyrells bedroom which explored some of his motivations for creating the Replicants.

The vulnerability and performance of the human characters compared to the Replicants. Look at the human characters in the film. Genre based caricatures from detective stories or film noir, the Replicants on the other hand behave quite differently. Detached, aloof, cold; nothing really bothers them except death which they seem unable to cope with. Deckard behaves in much the same way as Roy Batty. He fights just as hard to stay alive.

The reason I enjoy this film so much is because these are clues to a mystery which the audience is never really asked to participate in. It operates on the level of a novel which is a unique and difficult thing to achieve in a script and while its botched together and feels as if the edit has been abandoned because of the sea of ideas.

And doesn't it look good, still stands up today effects and all (even the cables lifting the skycars). Its one of those films which is an entire style and genre all on its own.

The book "Future Noir" is a great and detailed read about the production. Contrary to popular belief Ridley Scott was not forced to include the voice over for the theatrical release, it was something he had pushed for a one point. He and the producer were fired at one point in the production but they just continued to show up for work. Yes the Unicorn is from "Legend" and the Theatrical ending is from "The Shining". There was a pan Atlantic stoush between the English crew and American crew during the production.

I really encourage fans to have a look at "Future Noir". There is an extra chapter of the book available online which deals with the camera work. Ill try and find a link somewhere in my bloated bookmarks tab.

I'm a huge fan, made me want to make films. I cant wait to see and get the new cut.
  • 0

#18 Matt Irwin

Matt Irwin
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 13 October 2007 - 09:31 PM

I just saw it last night at the Landmark. What a truly humbling experience.
I was noticing so many subtleties to Cronenweth's work that I never would have seen in the 30+ times I've viewed the film before.

One Question:
Did they add more "Jaguar eyes" that in the original cut, or had I missed how many there are before?

I noticed that too.
We probably missed them, since the effect is done with lighting. There were many more occurances that were much more subtle (and not noticeable on a DVD), highlighting points in character arcs. Genious...
  • 0

#19 William A Chapman Jr

William A Chapman Jr
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 142 posts
  • Other
  • Oly, WA, U.S.A

Posted 14 October 2007 - 03:27 AM

I've never seen it, I guess i should go rent it. Is there a special edition DVD or Directors cut DVD out?
  • 0

#20 John Allardice

John Allardice
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Director
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:55 AM

I've never seen it, I guess i should go rent it. Is there a special edition DVD or Directors cut DVD out?


Do yourself a favor, wait another 2 months, the Final Cut is being released on Blu-Ray, HD-DVD & DVD on 12/18. The current DVD release was encoded back in '97 and isn't even anamorphic. Not the best way to enjoy the movie.

Edited by John Allardice, 14 October 2007 - 09:57 AM.

  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Opal

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

Technodolly

Visual Products

Tai Audio

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Tai Audio

The Slider

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Paralinx LLC

CineLab