Jump to content


Photo

Loading problems - Arri SR1


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Yutine Fung

Yutine Fung
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 13 October 2007 - 11:09 PM

I was doing a test shoot today with a Arri SR1 camera. I loaded a 100ft Fuji negative film on spool and everything seemed to be good initially.

However, when we had shot about 80ft of the film, the camera started to sound wrong. So I put the magazine inside the changing bag. And when I opened the take-up side, the film was already messed up. I finally managed to round the film to the take-up core, cut it off and put it back into the original box.

Now my questions are:

1) I still couldn't understand what's causing this. The film went on pretty well in the beginning, and the take-up side failed to take up the film at the last moment...

2) Is the exposed film affected? Is it possible to develop the 80ft exposed film?
  • 0

#2 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 13 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

Could you describe the problem in more detail? I know the SR line really well, but I need to know more about the problem to tell you how you can avoid it next time.
  • 0

#3 Yutine Fung

Yutine Fung
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:30 AM

Apparently the camera jammed in the middle of the shoot. When I opened the take-up side of the magazine, the film was twisted and folded. The film was stuck in the gate and the sprocket holes were broken.
  • 0

#4 Carlos Cruz

Carlos Cruz

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 14 October 2007 - 06:55 AM

1) I still couldn't understand what's causing this. The film went on pretty well in the beginning, and the take-up side failed to take up the film at the last moment...

No idea, maybe loop was wrong? Take some blank stock same mag and camera and check it...my two cents

2) Is the exposed film affected? Is it possible to develop the 80ft exposed film?
It's better to check if the perfs are not torn if they are, you'd better consult lab, (things will get messy when the film will tear in developing machine. I don't know how bad that was but be ready for scratches :(
-yes of course you can develop 80ft film if the perfs are allright
  • 0

#5 A. Whitehouse

A. Whitehouse
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 267 posts
  • Director
  • Melbourne

Posted 14 October 2007 - 07:25 AM

At a guess, something Ive seen students do wrong when loading SR2 mags is fail to properly attach the take up film to the core so it eventually comes loose during shooting. Its usually about 2 minutes in but you can hear the problem before you see it if you know what I mean. The take up side is then like spaghetti but its surprising how often the footage is largely undamaged and usable. Im not sure if that is the issue here but its something Ive seen several times.
  • 0

#6 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:16 PM

At a guess, something Ive seen students do wrong when loading SR2 mags is fail to properly attach the take up film to the core so it eventually comes loose during shooting. Its usually about 2 minutes in but you can hear the problem before you see it if you know what I mean. The take up side is then like spaghetti but its surprising how often the footage is largely undamaged and usable. Im not sure if that is the issue here but its something Ive seen several times.


I taught a lot of students how to load these mags. What A. Whitehouse mentions (by the way, you should change your display name to your full first and last name, it forum's policy) is probably the biggest mistake. I have found that students usually don't hear this problem, even though a professional assistant would notice it immediately. This is my bet. 100 feet is little enough film that it could just be coincidence that it failed near the end of the roll. It probably slipped off the core in the first 10 feet.
  • 0

#7 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:00 AM

...100 feet is little enough film that it could just be coincidence that it failed near the end of the roll. It probably slipped off the core in the first 10 feet.


When shooting just 100' with an SR, I still make sure to place another 100' daylight spool in the takeup. Not only is there 0 chance of it slipping off the core, but more importantly your 100' of film will still fit inside the canister it came in!

But regarding the original incident, it sounds like something jammed at some point, and as a result tore a couple perfs, ruined the loop and also caused it to wind up on the takeup loosely. It's also possible that perhaps the feed wasn't wound up tight enough around the takeup core, which is something I've seen ruin a shoot in the past.

I've never had any issues with the SR, so this is quite unfortunate to hear, but in the future just make sure to always run a quick scratch test and make sure everything's functioning correctly...basic stuff :)

Edited by Jonathan Bowerbank, 15 October 2007 - 01:02 AM.

  • 0

#8 Yutine Fung

Yutine Fung
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 October 2007 - 10:39 AM

Thank you for all these useful suggestions. I had sent out the film to the lab yesterday. Let's see how it comes out...
I loaded(in the same way) and shot another 100 ft of film the other day, and everything went successfully.

Jonathan, do you suggest putting a spool instead of a core in the takeup?
  • 0

#9 Chris Keth

Chris Keth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4427 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:37 PM

Thank you for all these useful suggestions. I had sent out the film to the lab yesterday. Let's see how it comes out...
I loaded(in the same way) and shot another 100 ft of film the other day, and everything went successfully.

Jonathan, do you suggest putting a spool instead of a core in the takeup?


A core will work fine. Just give the core several full turns to get everything nice and tightly wrapped on there so it won't come off. Usually I see students trying to save film and they don't give it enough turns to be secure and it comes off.
  • 0

#10 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 17 October 2007 - 05:05 PM

Jonathan, do you suggest putting a spool instead of a core in the takeup?


Only if you're shooting 100' rolls. The 2" core along with the exposed film is too wide to fit back inside the canister it came in. I was lucky to have a 400' canister on me the last time I went from a 100' daylight spool to a 2" core in the takeup.
  • 0

#11 Yutine Fung

Yutine Fung
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 17 October 2007 - 05:34 PM

Only if you're shooting 100' rolls. The 2" core along with the exposed film is too wide to fit back inside the canister it came in. I was lucky to have a 400' canister on me the last time I went from a 100' daylight spool to a 2" core in the takeup.


You're right at this point. I had a difficult time to put the exposed film back to the canister last time...
  • 0

#12 Yutine Fung

Yutine Fung
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 24 October 2007 - 09:30 PM

Got the footage today. Everything comes out fine...such a relief
  • 0

#13 Ben Rowsell

Ben Rowsell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • New Zealand

Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:14 AM

you problem probably is that the film was not attached to the takeup spindle, or attached in away that allowed it to become loose. If it is a collapsible core system make sure the locking mechanism is holding properly, or if it is a mag where you have to wind the film around a plastic film core, do it in a way that it wont come loose by itself. Try putting a fold in the film to jam it into the core slot until you get used to wrapping the film tight so you dont have to do this.

This can be a problem for people that are new to loading coax mags. They form the loop and tread it into the takeup side then forget to open the exp side of the mag up to wind onto the core. Easier to do that it sounds in the heat of the moment. tey to develop a system that doesnt allwo that to happen, eg once you come out of the dark, open up the EXP side first before you form the loop, that way you cant forget to do it.

NOTE: this applies only to loading up unexposed film in an empty coax style magazine!!! (SR, 535, etc) Be sure that the EXP side is empty before opening in daylight. With displament mags (435, 353, Panaflex, Arricam, etc) you have to do everything in the dark
  • 0

#14 Andrew Dutton

Andrew Dutton

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • cleveland ohio

Posted 24 November 2007 - 04:52 PM

The film slipped off the takeup core and pileded up on the takup side or the takeup belt broke.
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

CineLab

Technodolly

Opal

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Opal