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Bad batch of Kodak super-8?


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#1 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 03:16 PM

I wanted to find out if anyone else is having problems with recently manufactured cartridges of Kodak super-8. This week I attempted to shoot with several rolls of recently ordered Kodak super-8 stock. These were 50 footage cartridges of both Ecktachrome 64T and Tri-X 7266. I tried shooting with various cartridges of the new stock and found that they either would run intermittently, or not at all, when depressing the shutter release . This ?jamming? occurred in 2 different cameras. A co-worker of mine experienced the same problem on a different job with a third camera. Fortunately I had 2 ?older? cartridges of Kodak stock with my gear. These older cartridges worked fine in both cameras. These rolls were ordered about 6 and 12 months ago. Is it possible that there?s a current batch of Kodak super-8 stock being manufactured to different standards than were being used earlier in the year? Anyone else experience this issue?
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 04:12 PM

Start with room temperature film when shooting.

Advance the cartridge spindle in the clockwise direction (when the spindle is facing you) a few turns, I'd say 5-6 half turns should do it. If the cartridge is difficult to turn, it might pose problems during shooting, especially if your camera has a weak motor drive or you are shooting in cold weather.

If the spindle turns smoothly and easily you probably won't have a problem. Be careful when you let go of the spindle that the film does not unwind or unravel inside of the cartridge. (you'll hear the film spindle make unwinding sounds if this is the case).
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#3 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 05:39 PM

My first thought when I was having problems on location was that this was a temperature issue or a problem with a particular camera. However, this jamming situation occurred at 70 degree temps with cartridges that had been at room temp for several days. Three different cameras, which have never had weak drive issues, had trouble with this new stock. The two cameras I was using had no problems shooting with ?older? cartridges. This seems to rule out cold or weak drives as the culprit. My co-worker, did exactly what you described in terms of advancing the film in order to un-jam the cartridges, but she had to to this repeatedly with every cartridge she used. She was shooting in 70 degree temps with a camera that?s been used regularly for the past 3 years with no jamming issues.
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#4 andy oliver

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 05:49 PM

Yep, i've had the jitters, canon 814xls, special and 7008, all with batch no. PE 00998713 B 7280 308 012.03 SLIT 65. Purchased 20 from kodak in august, some ran thru ok even at 54fps, while others didn't, most footage was unusable.
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#5 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 11:08 PM

I recently bought some Super-8 Vision 500T off of Ebay. It came from Rochestor interestingly enough. It had the smoothest turning spindle I have ever experienced with negative film stock. I have five left. The number in the white area on the outside of the super-8 500T box is 054 0521.
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#6 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 11:29 PM

Here?s some more batch data: The cartridge of 64T that I couldn?t get to run at all - PE: 01046613 A 7280 309 014.01 Slit-39. The roll of Tri-X that repeatedly jammed, but ultimately made it through to the end - PE: 01043695 A 7266 125 003.03 Slit-80. The older Tri-X roll that worked smoothly - PE: 00930408 A 7266 123 002.01 Slit-14. The older Eckatchrome 7240 that worked smoothly - 298 902815.
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#7 ioannis belimpasakis

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 07:11 AM

Here?s some more batch data: The cartridge of 64T that I couldn?t get to run at all - PE: 01046613 A 7280 309 014.01 Slit-39. The roll of Tri-X that repeatedly jammed, but ultimately made it through to the end - PE: 01043695 A 7266 125 003.03 Slit-80. The older Tri-X roll that worked smoothly - PE: 00930408 A 7266 123 002.01 Slit-14. The older Eckatchrome 7240 that worked smoothly - 298 902815.


i have also encountered many similar problems recently <_< . At the beginning I thought it was my two cameras (bauer 715 and nizo 800). but now i realise that this could be a general problem. where did you buy the films from?
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#8 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:24 AM

i have also encountered many similar problems recently <_< . At the beginning I thought it was my two cameras (bauer 715 and nizo 800). but now i realise that this could be a general problem. where did you buy the films from?


The uncooperative cartridges I was using were ordered directly from Kodak on October 15.
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#9 Chris Burke

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 11:35 AM

The uncooperative cartridges I was using were ordered directly from Kodak on October 15.



I have had similar problems with 7217 and 7218 ordered in August. It would jam at the top of the roll. What I did was to take out the cart and replace it. That would do the trick. Sometimes I would have to do this twice. Overall it didn't happen that often but it was a hassle.

Hey Kodak. What gives?


:huh:
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#10 Mike Crane

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 02:02 PM

Kodak recently switched methods of cartridge manufacture. They have been using another method to lubricate their carts. Looks like they may have to consider going back to the old silicone cart treatments.
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#11 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:06 PM

Kodak recently switched methods of cartridge manufacture. They have been using another method to lubricate their carts. Looks like they may have to consider going back to the old silicone cart treatments.


Or it could be the opposite.

The cartridges being tried now that are difficult to film with were perhaps made a while ago while others most recently made are working better. Who knows which is which? It's not when you buy or try the cartridge that matters, it's when the cartridge was actually made that matters.
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#12 Carl Wiedemann

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 05:17 PM

Or it could be the opposite.

The cartridges being tried now that are difficult to film with were perhaps made a while ago while others most recently made are working better. Who knows which is which? It's not when you buy or try the cartridge that matters, it's when the cartridge was actually made that matters.


Allessandro:
Yes, that?s possible. But, it seems much more likely that the cartridges I purchased a year ago (which worked well) were manufactured before the cartridges purchased last week (which worked poorly). From looking at the above posts it appears that there are a preponderance of cases of recently purchase stock that is behaving poorly.
The code on the smooth running stock (the ebay purchase) that you were using is the shorter type of data code (054 0521) that was being used last year, not the more lengthy designation used in recent months. Seems more likely that you were working with older stock. Can I be 100 percent certain? No. I?m just trying to gather data and see if there?s a trend that can be tracked so that we can all avoid future super-8 conundrums.

Mike: Thanks for the lubrication info?. Where did you hear this? Do you have a contact at Kodak?
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#13 alexandros petin

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 06:17 PM

Hello
a little bit off topic but since you mentioned it i have a question
how can someone estimate the age of the film using the batch code number?
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#14 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:58 PM

This is one of those moment where John Pytlack's absence from this forum really becomes unbearable. :(

He could have given us the relevant information on the code-designation and location-allocation in respect to cartridges/film-stocks loaded and manufactured in Chalons-sur-Saône or the new Kodak Park plant in Rochester, which should be churning out material from this summer onwards. As I havn't experienced any problems recently (but had a faulty 7266 cartridge which I had purchased last year), I second Alex's scepticism based on the stockpiling of S8 film stock that took place when Chalons-sur-Saône closed down and which still clutters many distribution points and channels.

Gottfried Klose introduced his new S8 cartridge design this week-end in Berlin, which is supposed to be a superior design to the Kodapak Instamatic (but then again, he wouldn't state in his media blurb that it is inferior, would he?). I will post infos on that as soon as they become available.
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#15 Mike Crane

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:34 PM

Allessandro:
Yes, that?s possible. But, it seems much more likely that the cartridges I purchased a year ago (which worked well) were manufactured before the cartridges purchased last week (which worked poorly). From looking at the above posts it appears that there are a preponderance of cases of recently purchase stock that is behaving poorly.
The code on the smooth running stock (the ebay purchase) that you were using is the shorter type of data code (054 0521) that was being used last year, not the more lengthy designation used in recent months. Seems more likely that you were working with older stock. Can I be 100 percent certain? No. I?m just trying to gather data and see if there?s a trend that can be tracked so that we can all avoid future super-8 conundrums.

Mike: Thanks for the lubrication info?. Where did you hear this? Do you have a contact at Kodak?


My info on the cartridges came in bits from John P (when he was with us), the guys at Spectra, etc. My understanding is that all the left over (old) carts made in France were sold to outside vendors (Pro8, Spectra, etc) over a year ago. Only carts from the US are being used by Kodak now. They employ a new process to make the cartridge slippery enough to transport film smoothly.

But, in truth, we do not know exactly when the film was produced. Perhaps Kodak is dipping into an old inventory of loaded super 8 film. The only way to know for sure is to have someone from Kodak check the batch numbers.

Even if it turns out to be a recent film batch, we still do not know for sure if the jamming relates to lubrication. There could be other problems... ...maybe the parts inside the cart are not properly formed.
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#16 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:35 PM

I bought 20 cartridges from Kodak Canada in Montréal (10x Ekta 64t 5x 200T and 5x 500T) in August 2007.
I just tested my latest acquisition a Beaulieu 4008 ZM II with a roll of 64T and had no problem at all.
Actually I tought while loading it in my Lomo tank for home processing how easy it was to un-wind it.
Keep you posted on the other 19 rolls...but I encounted jaming problems earlier on this past June
with 64T while performing dissolves with my Nizo Pro wich ususally is flawless at 24fps or less.
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#17 Jim Carlile

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 01:17 AM

Just a note:

All Super 8 cartridges are being manufactured in Windsor, Colorado, as is most MP film. It's not Rochester any more.

They've had some big, big problems there recently-- last summer they had to trash a whole bunch of 64T due to some pretty major mistakes. Definitely report back to Kodak specific details on batch numbers, etc. You should get a refund, too.

http://www.kodak.com...e/windsor.jhtml
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 04:59 AM

I shot a cartridge of Vision 200T last night. I was a bit concerned that the cartridge seemed tight when I tried to advance a small amount of film by moving the cartridge spindle. Sometimes my Eumigs bog down when I shoot in single frame mode so I was really concerned the camera would not make it through the entire cartridge. I advanced the cartridge spindle a few extra turns, and then I tapped the side of the cartridge. It dawned on me for the first ever not to tap the spindle side. Instead I just tapped just the opposite side from the spindle, the side with the film label. I advanced the film spindle a couple more half turns, made sure the spindle did not unravel when I let go, and then loaded the cartridge in the camera.

The good news was the super-8 camera made it through the entire cartridge in basically single frame mode. Some Eumig models are notorious for needing lubrication and the camera I was using is getting to that point that it needs to be lubricated. The lack of internal camera lubrication can cause a cartridge to jam from time to time, especially if I am shooting when it is cold.

It was not cold last night but I think the prepping of the super-8 cartridge actually helped prevent the film from jamming.
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#19 Ernie Zahn

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 09:23 AM

I'm having problems as well, but I have only been using one camera. My Canon has jammed before so I'm quite sure if my problem is the carts just yet.
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#20 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 12:16 AM

I shot one cartridge of Ektachrome 100D earlier this evening, the cartridge spindle advance super smooth by hand and the film easily made it through the entire cartridge.
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